Live data from Hacker News

YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

mashable.com

51–60 of 216 posts

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#51
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But instead it just bowed down to the copyright industry you mean youtube tried to obey the law? You cannot just unilaterally decide not to obey copyright laws. > It could have spurred a copyright revolution. I am not in favour of vigilantism - the right way to change the law is to participate in the public civil procedures. For example, if enough people joined the Pirate Party ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unite…

> you mean youtube tried to obey the law? To be clear, YouTube's goal is not to obey the law, but to minimize their loss. This is why they entirely disregard key aspects and intents of the law, leaving fair use and fair process as a joke. Their implementation harms creators and redirects their earnings to companies that were never legally, contractually or morally entitled to it. > the right way to change the law is…

>[YouTube] entirely disregard[s] key aspects and intents of the law, leaving fair use and fair process as a joke.

I make my living from YouTube, and I am very familiar with their policies surrounding copyright. I think your characterization of YouTube in relation to copyright is totally off base.

YouTube is covered by the DMCA, and YouTube responds to DMCA takedowns because if they don’t, they could be liable for contributory copyright infringement.

The DMCA provides safe harbor to online service providers (OSPs) who follow its notice-and-takedown procedures. Those procedures don’t allow OSPs to make subjective decisions about whether fair use might apply in relation to a copyright claim.

Nevertheless, YouTube sometimes does exactly that. YouTube responds to some DMCA takedowns by, instead of promptly taking the video down, requesting additional information from the claimant in support of their claim. As I understand the DMCA, that is YouTube going well-beyond their legal obligations - to their potential (albeit unlikely) detriment.

So that’s the DMCA takedown process.

Now let’s talk about Content ID.

When a creator receives a Content ID claim, that’s the beginning of a process, not the end. Content ID claims can be disputed, and during the dispute, all revenue from the video is held in escrow, eventually going to whomever prevails in the dispute.

The first level of the dispute process is essentially the uploader asking the claimant to reconsider, with the option to provide a brief explanation of why the uploader believes the claim is invalid.

If the dispute is rejected, that’s still not the end of the story. The uploader can press the dispute further. Doing so forces the claimant to either abandon their claim, or ‘upgrade’ it to a formal DMCA takedown. If a takedown is issued and the uploader believes their work is not infringing, they can respond with a counter-notification, which forces the claimant to either (a) sue the uploader within ten days, or (b) lose the dispute. In the latter case, the video goes back up and any escrow revenue - along with all future revenue - goes to the uploader instead of the copyright claimant.

I am making two main points here:

(1) I believe that YouTube does try to comply with the law. Whether they do so out of civic duty or “to avoid expensive litigation” is irrelevant.

(2) Although the DMCA’s safe harbor provisions don’t allow OSPs to make subjective evaluations regarding fair use (while retaining their safe harbor), YouTube often does exactly that, when they feel it may be relevant.

In fairness, I think part of that is because of they were emboldened by the recent-ish decision in Business Casual v. YouTube, but whatever the reason, it happens. And YouTube was doing that long before the decision in Business Casual. (Which held, in part, that YouTube can’t be liable for infringing the copyright of any content that is uploaded on YouTube, since their TOS include a provision that essentially grants YouTube a license to do whatever they want with the work. Crazy stuff.)

There is more to copyright on YouTube, and I like to think that I am very familiar with how it all works. If you think I’m wrong about anything I wrote above, I am interested in hearing why. Similarly, if you have any questions I’ll do my best to answer them.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#52
post #10

If someone scans a recent DVD release of SW, is it still public domain? Or must you have access to an original film reel from the early 1900 and scan that? Do anyone have besides in some Disney archive? Has issues like that ever been clarified?

If you consider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_originality the answer seems to be "it depends" For example, in the US there have been cases where high quality reproductions of old public domain paintings did not meet the threshold of originality to qualify for copyright. Remastered audio recordings with adjustments such as equalisation and sound editing were ruled to be eligible for copyright in 2016, the…

There was actually a dispute between Wikipedia/Wikimedia Commons and the British National Gallery over this - the UK working similar to Germany

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Portrait_Gallery_and_...

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#53

Maybe because in some countries (like Germany) it is not yet in public domain.

YouTube forces everyone, independent of local laws, to work under the US's fair use laws, they could at least be consistent and not care if some country has other laws on copyright.

Which is what they do mostly. If Germany was the problem, they'd make the upload inaccessible in Germany and leave it untouched for everyone else. Content-ID marking it globally is clearly an issue on YouTube's end

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#54

"Here's my favorite example, here: 1928, my hero, Walt Disney, created this extraordinary work, the birth of Mickey Mouse in the form of Steamboat Willie. But what you probably don't recognize about Steamboat Willie and his emergence into Mickey Mouse is that in 1928, Walt Disney, to use the language of the Disney Corporation today, "stole" Willie from Buster Keaton's "Steamboat Bill." It was a parody, a take-off; it…

Take what you can, give nothing back. Apparently.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#55

Maybe because in some countries (like Germany) it is not yet in public domain.

In Germany there is no public domain, so it never will be.

It will be "gemeinfrei", which is a different thing, somewhen after 2036. Probably even only after 2058, because one of the composers of the music lived till 1988.

EDIT: German Wikipedia says 2042.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> According to UK copyright law, in order to know if a film is in the public domain you need to identify the following creators: (a) the principal director (b) the author of the screenplay (c) the author of the dialogue, and (d) the composer of music specially created for and used in the film > Copyright in the film expires 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which the last person listed above dies. Taken f…

Interesting that the actors aren't taken into account, you would think so considering the large impact they have on the final product. Certainly more so than the music director. Maybe that last one is just a result of the powerful music lobby.

I think it would be difficult to truly list all of the actors in a particular film, let alone establish when they all died.

Do extras count? Many of them aren't going to be listed in the credits.

Perhaps you could only count those actors listed in the credits at the end of the film and nobody else?

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#57
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really an issue with YouTube's copyright system but in copyright laws.

No, there's a problem with both. This was a Content ID complaint, not a DMCA takedown.

Why is the content id system there? Oh right to make sure they don't get sued to shit.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#58

it became public domain in the US. Disney still holds copyright elsewhere and Youtube must adhere to all national copyright laws in countries which have access to youtube

Pretty sure YouTube/Google have a notion of region and can selectively enforce copyright if they choose to.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#59
post #44

I don't understand what youtube is gaining from this, there are so many stories like that. Is that because they partner with big movie/music industries? Also I don't understand why competitors are not really picking up.

Their main reason is to not get sued to hell.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viacom_International_Inc._v._Y....

> Also I don't understand why competitors are not really picking up.

Video is expensive. But competitors do pick up, just in different ways. TikTok and Twitch are strong competition, but they have a focus on different style of experience.

Re: YouTube demonetizes public domain 'Steamboat Willie' video after copyright claim

#60
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oops, just a bug" only goes so far. What's interesting about content ID is that only a select group of large copyright holders have access to protecting their works through it, and we have a growing number of cases where it makes "decisions" that are not in line with copyright law. So is it a copyright enforcement system or is it really some kind of cartel mechanism which is replacing copyright law? Inquiring minds…

>So is it a copyright enforcement system or is it really some kind of cartel mechanism which is replacing copyright law? It's neither of those. Content ID is an automated detection system that Google/Youtube voluntarily put in place to help make peace with big copyright holders like Viacom to stop the lawsuits: https://archive.is/Awz5k Basically Youtube created a win-win deal: when our content scanner finds a pirated…

A major problem with this is that those matching uploads are not necessarily pirated uploads, but the whole system is biased to think they are.

NASA has gotten claims from news organizations who copied NASA's footage of rocket launches. Those NASA videos were not pirated (and neither where the news organization videos, but that's not the point).

Piano teachers who play public domain classic works have gotten claims from publishers like Sony.

The system is heavily biased towards he big copyright holders and against other publishers, largely regardless of the actual merits of the case.

As a sibling comment says, it's at best a win-win-loose situation.

As for the DMCA: that system, and how YouTube handles it, has severe shortcomings of its own. It's very well possible that ContentID is better than the DMCA, but that's a very small hurdle to clear.

Post reply on HN