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Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

ryanblakeley.net

21–30 of 117 posts

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact, a whole field (stormwater engineering) exists to mitigate this. I haven't checked in lately. How are they doing getting over the age-old "Drain! Drain! Drain!! Faster! Faster! Faster!" mantra? This ethic of course only contributes to the problems of flash flooding, lack of buffer, lack of aquifer recharge, and (ultimately) alternating drought/flood cycles.

I don't really know. I live in Washington, though, and we sure have a lot of man-made storage ponds.

Thanks. Hey it's a start!

Village Homes in Davis has an interesting distributed stormwater system, which was specifically designed to maximize infiltration.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_05oRQxssQ

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#22
post #5

They've certainly decimated the Tortoise population in the hi-desert near JTNP where I own property. Automobiles are way too fast for those to stand a chance.

> where I own property You hit the nail on the head workout realizing it. The real problem is mass property ownership in remote areas. The huge uptick in car travelers and according roads are a result of that.

Yes | No.

The classic "road trueism" is If you build them, they will fill.

Four lane highways with occassional gridlock when expanded become six lane highways with occassional gridlock.

The connection corollary that follows is roads | train lines built to connect A and B will often be followed by small townsites along the way and the spread of "off the grid" living at blocks T junctioning dirt road access from the new A B route.

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#23

There's an argument which comes up often when talking about a society without a central government: "Who will build the roads?" Besides the simple idea of neighbours building and maintaining small roads, I argue that I wouldn't want the highway. Between the ecological damage, the noise, air pollution, increased reliance on shipping things from far away vs buying local - are we really sure building the massive road ne…

How strange. I imagine the argument is propagated by the historically illiterate. When I think of the origins of modern roads, I naturally think of English turnpikes at the dawn of the industrial age -- all privately owned toll roads.

> There's an argument which comes up often when talking about a society without a central government: "Who will build the roads?"

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We're in the middle of this biodiversity crisis and extinction event that is human caused, with cars kind of at the center of it in a lot of ways"

I'm just not that compelled by that argument. If cars are at the center, then so are a hundred other things that are impacting biodiversity at least as much. I'm really not trying to be a car stan here, I don't really care about cars. But focusing on cars is kindof a dumb distraction, in my opinion.

It's not so much cars themselves as it is car-centric development that causes many problems.

In the US at least, this is pretty clear: when you design new areas and cities around cars as the primary or even only way to get around, this hurts the environment a lot more than denser, multi-modal style of developments. It results in more total space needed per person, and it results in higher energy expenditures.

If you look at vehicle miles traveled per capita, the US is around 2x that of major Western European countries, and nearly 4x that of Japan: https://publicinterestnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02...

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#25

Road ecology is a very interesting and important field, particularly the modeling of animal interactions with road crossings - all very interesting and important. The rhetorical title is absurd, however, and I'd argue even Ben Goldfarb would agree with that. Habitat loss is the single largest driver of biodiversity loss, as a result of many, many drivers. You've heard of all of them. The presence and proliferation of…

Perhaps, but...

1. Roads being inextricably linked with car-dependence and urban development is clearly part of the implication

2. It is a pun!

It seems a bit needlessly nitpick to call it absurd, in my book.

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#26
I have a couple of stories

1. Last Easter my wife and I were travelling across the country. We drive reasonably slow, mostly about 100km/h. I guess it was a special time of the year because we must've killed at least several thousand insects in the first two hours alone. It was non stop. One car out of thousands on the road. Made us feel pretty bad.

2. Second story is about four years old. Travelling on a brand new highway around Easter. I guess wildlife was not used to the road because the asphalt was - i kid you not - littered with squashed snakes and birds. I couldn't believe what I was seeing - several kilometres of straight road covered with untold amount of bodies. One of ugliest things I have seen.

Roads are absolutely horrible and I very much hate travelling because of stuff like this. I think some countries don't have such problems problems because they barely have any wildlife left.

It's a tragedy and barely anyone I know cares enough to even consider what we are doing.

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#27

There's an argument which comes up often when talking about a society without a central government: "Who will build the roads?" Besides the simple idea of neighbours building and maintaining small roads, I argue that I wouldn't want the highway. Between the ecological damage, the noise, air pollution, increased reliance on shipping things from far away vs buying local - are we really sure building the massive road ne…

Zeppelins are way more efficient. Use water as ballast, or compress the helium you don't need.

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#28
post #5

They've certainly decimated the Tortoise population in the hi-desert near JTNP where I own property. Automobiles are way too fast for those to stand a chance.

> where I own property You hit the nail on the head workout realizing it. The real problem is mass property ownership in remote areas. The huge uptick in car travelers and according roads are a result of that.

> You hit the nail on the head workout realizing it. The real problem is mass property ownership in remote areas. The huge uptick in car travelers and according roads are a result of that.

JTNP draws massive numbers of tourists. Plus the main road through my neck of the Mojave (62 and Amboy Rd.) is a popular alternate route linking LA and Las Vegas. You wouldn't believe how much traffic blasts through on weekends and holidays, most without even stopping. It's a lot of city folks driving like they're passing through an uninhabitable wasteland where speed limits don't exist.

The actual number of owners/residents like me out by my hood is on the order of hundreds, and most drive exceptionally slow in the hood because those roads are unpaved washboard insanity.

Airbnb/VHRs becoming a thing there and catering to the national park has made things much worse in terms of local vehicle traffic even on the dirt roads... but the Tortoises were already gone long before Airbnb even existed.

TL;DR: Tourism by automobile is the main problem, exacerbated by the draw of a popular national park. But even without it there's too much thanks to LAVegas traffic.

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#29
post #5

They've certainly decimated the Tortoise population in the hi-desert near JTNP where I own property. Automobiles are way too fast for those to stand a chance.

> where I own property You hit the nail on the head workout realizing it. The real problem is mass property ownership in remote areas. The huge uptick in car travelers and according roads are a result of that.

Come and take it.

Re: Are roads the biggest driver of ecological destruction?

#30
One thing you can do, in addition to advocating for public transit - if you have a lawn of short grass, grow native plants and let them get tall. They provide the habitats for animals that have gradually been taken away. Cut and burn the brush 1x/year and put some landscaping rocks between your house and the grass to encourage animals to stay in the landscaped areas, and you’ll be great.
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