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Making small games, which is fun in itself

abagames.github.io

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Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#72
post #46
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I concur. Digital game design lends itself to working "UI down" instead of "data model up" because most of the feel of the game derives from the interface. This is even true if you look at something like Civilization . The first release of that game was primarily built off the feel of the city management - the stats of everything were given very basic tuning. It switched from real time to turn based relatively late i…

> Digital game design lends itself to working "UI down" instead of "data model up" because most of the feel of the game derives from the interface. You're talking about a later stage of the ideation process than I am, I think. You seem to be talking about building a game in an established genre, where you know what kind of medium you'll use, and even what game engine you probably need, and so you can sit down and sta…

I would say that paper and table top is far too removed a medium from an interactive video game to be a proper prototyping form. Paper only cares about the rules and consequences of those rules, but no "feedback".

For example, you would not imagine that portal could've been designed from using paper and tabletop. The feel of looking thru a portal, the orientation (or disorientation) of the player, etc are all crucial to making portal good.

You would also not be able to prototype a game such as Q.W.O.P. (and their incarnations such as "Getting Over It") on paper - it's impossible to imagine it, without first getting the smallest prototype that's interactable on the medium it's ultimately delivered.

I suspect that using paper and tabletop to design a game mechanic will surely bias you to produce discrete interactions in your game, even if the ultimate medium is in the computer and played interactively.

Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun premise! I will note that the dictionary is not as complete as I might hope—it didn’t recognize “tasers,” and there was one other word it rejected that I thought it would get (forgot what it was though). Still, a fun game!

https://www.anagrammer.com/scrabble/tasers You'll find a lot of variation between dictionaries. I was surprised to discover that curating the dictionary is one of the hardest aspects of building a word game. People have a lot of opinions on what should or should not be included, I've spent a lot of time manually filtering out profane and questionable words. Another interesting constraint of this particular game is th…

Interesting points for word games in general and this one in particular!

Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun premise! I will note that the dictionary is not as complete as I might hope—it didn’t recognize “tasers,” and there was one other word it rejected that I thought it would get (forgot what it was though). Still, a fun game!

https://www.anagrammer.com/scrabble/tasers You'll find a lot of variation between dictionaries. I was surprised to discover that curating the dictionary is one of the hardest aspects of building a word game. People have a lot of opinions on what should or should not be included, I've spent a lot of time manually filtering out profane and questionable words. Another interesting constraint of this particular game is th…

I played this for hours last night, I'm going to need to block it :) Set myself a target of 2048 for nostalgic reasons, turns out it takes a long time (for me anyway).

You're right about the dictionary, actually the whole time I kept wondering about how annoying it must have been to choose a dictionary for this game. Even though not accidentally making non-obscure words without noticing is part of the challenge, accidentally making obscure words is annoying!

Maybe I just don't know enough words - but looking through my game log, I was annoyed by "cony", "smit", "huic", "yipe", "nome", "torii", "agon", "mairs", "imido" and "sial", some of which don't display a definition when you click them, but all of which appear in all the scrabble dictionaries referenced on the website you just linked. Meanwhile I was sad to discover vape is so far only in one scrabble dictionary :) And annoyed to discover "oxalic", which is also in all the dictionaries on that site, was not accepted.

I guess there's a spectrum between "advanced scrabble player level vocabulary" and "fun word game", because I imagine (and suspect you have probably had feedback along these lines) _not_ allowing a word which is obscure but still unambiguously used in the modern era would be worse UX overall - the sort that's more likely to make you rage-quit.

I can see why you'd try to get a bit of wordle-esque shareability out of the daily mode even though I like the classic mode more myself. But I think the tutorial popup isn't as comprehensive as it needs to be for someone's first game to be fun. The first time I clicked the link I did an abysmal job at the daily challenge, I think it wasn't obvious that swaps didn't need to be neighbouring like the given example. Something that might be better is to make an interactive tutorial for first-time visitors - come up with a 5x5 board that is quickly solved and demonstrates several strategies and then walk the player through clearing it. I also think the help popup being one click away would be useful.

I would also have liked the help popup to let me know that progress is saved if you close the page, I ended up checking in an incognito window because I had no time to keep playing but wanted to come back and try to reach the target I'd set myself another time!

Anyway - criticism and suggestions aside - well done, it is a fun game and concept!

Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#75
post #72
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Digital game design lends itself to working "UI down" instead of "data model up" because most of the feel of the game derives from the interface. You're talking about a later stage of the ideation process than I am, I think. You seem to be talking about building a game in an established genre, where you know what kind of medium you'll use, and even what game engine you probably need, and so you can sit down and sta…

I would say that paper and table top is far too removed a medium from an interactive video game to be a proper prototyping form. Paper only cares about the rules and consequences of those rules, but no "feedback". For example, you would not imagine that portal could've been designed from using paper and tabletop. The feel of looking thru a portal, the orientation (or disorientation) of the player, etc are all crucial…

I think you're taking the phrase "paper prototyping" too literally. And also, perhaps, you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say when I speak of a "fun game mechanic."

The original concept for Portal is actually really easy to prototype.

(And Portal is also a very good thing to spend some time physically prototyping, because it's a challenging thing to code on a computer — especially without any resources from someone who already figured out how to do it!)

To prototype a Portal puzzle, you will need:

• lego blocks, to build the puzzle room itself

• pipecleaners, sized to the jump distance of your character

• a smartphone

• a Bluetooth action camera that streams to the smartphone

• two hollow plastic rings — one orange-tinted and standing 1cm above the smartphone screen; one blue-tinted and standing 1cm in front of the camera (you could use those little "pizza saver" tables, cutting the centers out)

• orange and blue sticky notes, and a sharpie

Steps:

1. Build a puzzle room. Start with it being possible to clear using normal jumps.

2. Then find interesting portal-jumps in the room, by positioning the camera and smartphone as portals. Look through the smartphone (ingress portal) as you're placing the camera (egress portal) to determine a good place to put the egress portal, and to determine the correct angle for the jump — use the camera's lens-angle adjustment to simulate entering the ingress portal from an angle. (If you can't find interesting jumps, iterate on the room design.)

2b. Alternately, working backward from the room exit, position the egress portals where you want the jumps to terminate, and then position the ingress portals so you can see the chosen path out of the already-placed egress portals.

3. Ensure each jump is make-able before including it, by running a pipecleaner from a grounded jump origin waypoint — it should reach into the ring attached to the smartphone.

4. For each interesting portal-jump you find that you want to include, add a pair of sticky notes to the room where you had the camera and smartphone, with the same symbol written on each.

5. Lay out a success-line out of pipecleaners, from the start of the stage to the exit through the portals.

6. Modify the room until every step of this success-line is on the critical path — i.e. until it's impossible to traverse to the exit without at least going through this sequence of portal-jumps.

7. Now do it again 100 times with different room layouts. Keep the most interesting ones — the ones that are just mind-bending enough.

---

I hope it's clear from this, that what I'm talking about when I talk about a "fun mechanic" isn't necessarily a satisfying interaction; but rather a game system from which arises a novel, dense challenge-space that has potential for combinatoric mixing with the challenge-spaces of other game systems.

Once you know that Portal is a mechanic actually worth trying to implement as a puzzle game — i.e. that there are a good number of challenging puzzles that can be made in theory by requiring the player traverse a 3D space while "thinking with portals" — then you would implement and prototype the game system. At which point you could then test out puzzles that involve interactive reflex movement (e.g. portal-jump momentum redirection.)

Note, though, that nobody ever actually did this for Portal (at least, I don't think) because random people on the Internet had already been prototyping Portal in 2D by drawing portal-puzzles on paper or in MS Paint for years, before Narbacular Drop was developed. Most game mechanics that create interesting challenges in 2D, still create interesting challenges in 3D — so devs could just go straight ahead with a prototype in code, under the assumption that there would be plenty of challenge-space to discover. (On the other hand, there are concepts that don't work in 2D, but do work in 3D. That's when you should pull out the physical prototyping materials.)

> You would also not be able to prototype a game such as Q.W.O.P. (and their incarnations such as "Getting Over It") on paper

Even more ironic, as QWOP's premise is literally the digitization of a physical system: QWOP is a 2D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_doll, with very loose/lubricated joint pins, plus puppet strings attached to each extremity that can be pulled on.

Mind you, with modern high-level game physics engines, it may actually be faster to construct QWOP digitally than to construct the equivalent physical puppet. Especially if you're not already someone who enjoys handicrafts. But QWOP is the exception — it's less a game mechanic, and more a physics toy. So of course a game physics engine is going to be a good prototyping environment for it. :)

(The difference between "game mechanics" and "physics toys", being that "game mechanics" are systems with novel rules of their own, where much of the fun of the game comes from discovering, learning, and mastering these novel rules through encounters with increasingly worked examples; while a "physics toy" is a game element that obeys ordinary real-world physics — rules we already know! — in such a way that it poses a dexterity challenge, often mostly due to the impedance mismatch between the actual object and the input method used to communicate intent to interact with the object. Portal 2's paint is an example of both — the things the paint does once it's placed, form a game mechanic; but placing the paint, is a physics toy.)

Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#76
post #75
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say that paper and table top is far too removed a medium from an interactive video game to be a proper prototyping form. Paper only cares about the rules and consequences of those rules, but no "feedback". For example, you would not imagine that portal could've been designed from using paper and tabletop. The feel of looking thru a portal, the orientation (or disorientation) of the player, etc are all crucial…

I think you're taking the phrase "paper prototyping" too literally. And also, perhaps, you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say when I speak of a "fun game mechanic." The original concept for Portal is actually really easy to prototype. (And Portal is also a very good thing to spend some time physically prototyping, because it's a challenging thing to code on a computer — especially without any resources from s…

> (And Portal is also a very good thing to spend some time physically prototyping, because it's a challenging thing to code on a computer — especially without any resources from someone who already figured out how to do it!)

how so? implementing functional portals given that you have the Source engine to start from isn't difficult at all. sure, it took a little bit of work to make them look good, and to tidy up things like making physics props go through them properly, and making it so you can shoot portals onto certain walls but not others and have that all work properly. but just making static planes that teleport the player through them while conserving momentum so as to be able to prototype puzzle design isn't that difficult, and surely was much easier to do in the Source engine with the Hammer map editor than wasting time with LEGOs and pipe cleaners—especially when you hired the Narbacular Drop people to learn what they learned in implementing a less-complex version of the same idea. it's just hacking around the already existing physics engine in Source, to add physics and further dimensionality to the design idea that Narbacular Drop already proved—one which was also not predicated on paper/physical prototyping!

I'm trying to figure out why you used Portal as a specific example, when you yourself admit that this is not at all how they designed Portal, given that the way they did design Portal—by building a prototype and playing around with level design in-engine—is clearly the far superior way to go about things.

> Note, though, that nobody ever actually did this for Portal (at least, I don't think) because random people on the Internet had already been prototyping Portal in 2D by drawing portal-puzzles on paper or in MS Paint for years, before Narbacular Drop was developed.

is this true? from my recollection, this all began in the wake of the release of the initial announcement trailer for the original Portal back in 2006.

Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#77
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Digital game design lends itself to working "UI down" instead of "data model up" because most of the feel of the game derives from the interface. You're talking about a later stage of the ideation process than I am, I think. You seem to be talking about building a game in an established genre, where you know what kind of medium you'll use, and even what game engine you probably need, and so you can sit down and sta…

to the best of my understanding—but please correct me if I'm mistaken—Miyamoto is not, and never really has been, what we would traditionally call a "game designer"—from what I can tell from reading numerous interviews, both with him and others who worked with him over the years, he's more like a Steve Jobs-type figure. he comes up with a broad interesting idea or set of ideas or even just general vibe, and then it's…

> for example, that page of 300 video game design ideas are likely mostly or entirely interesting at face value—but without being tested, are basically entirely meaningless.

You happened to pick one of the much less worked examples; and also one that I would argue really isn't a "game mechanic" in the way it's traditionally meant.

Try https://www.squidi.net/three/entry.php?id=131 or https://www.squidi.net/three/entry.php?id=124. These are examples of game-mechanical systems — conceptual systems or rulesets from which derive a combinatoric flood of inspiration for possible challenges (as the application of those systems or rules), that in turn inform the entire scenario design of the game.

The two-button thing is an interaction mechanic — which obviously isn't something you can paper prototype. Which is probably why it's just notes rather than a worked example. A worked example of an interaction mechanic would be interactive!

> many people disagree with my assessment here, because they want to believe that it's possible to create a design for a video game that is unique and interesting and special, whole-cloth, without ever writing a single line of code.

I don't know who believes this. I certainly don't. My argument is that you can discover novel, dense, combinatoric challenge spaces that arise from systems of rules, without writing a line of code. Spaces of scenario-element design.

(These aren't games, though. They're the potential for games. Or rather, potentials for novel game [sub-]genres — novel kinds of challenges. You still have to actually build them to see whether it's possible to find interaction-mechanics that translate these conceptual challenges into fun real challenges.)

And maybe you can't discover the challenge-space inherent to something like Braid, but like I said in my previous post, Braid is an "art game" — not the kind of thing that works well with paper prototyping. (More specifically, Braid is a modern art game: a game that is as much about the medium and its constraints as it is about some objective concept. Braid is to the computer platformer genre as Mondrian's works are to paintings.)

Inexperienced game designers should not be attempting to make "art games" — as they don't yet understand the constraints of the medium they're operating under.

My argument is that an inexperienced game designer who wants to really do game design, should do paper prototyping when doing initial ideation of game mechanics, because this will force them out of the rut of tinkering around inside Blender or Game Maker or RPG Maker or whatever — i.e. the thing that "game designer/developers" would do by default, which tends to lock them into genre and makes certain parts of game-mechanics-space more "available" than others (because those parts are available wholesale as libraries or as part of the runtime/framework; or because other people have already done things like that and so produced assets for something like that available in an asset store, etc.)

Even though this prevents them from exploring some parts of game-mechanics space (e.g. the art-game parts), the parts that will be accessible to them through paper prototyping, will be parts less explored by most game designers, with much low-hanging fruit still left to pluck. And the fact that these parts of game-mechanics space are unexplored, will keep away the automatic bias that "designer/developers" have toward mechanics that are easy to implement.

An experienced game designer doesn't need paper prototyping — they understand well the strengths and limitations of the greater "digital interactive medium", and so they can just imagine game mechanics into existence, and then go implement them. They have all the tools in their mental toolkit to know what it would look and play like, to implement something like Braid. So they can and should just go do that. Experienced designers would be wasting their talents on anything less!

But nobody starts experienced. You have to get that experience somehow. And IMHO the fastest method is to sit down with arts-and-crafts stuff to generate some truly "outsider art" game-mechanics, and then turn around and push the medium as hard as you can to implement those mechanics. Maybe they'll be fun, maybe they won't; but you'll certainly learn a lot more about both the medium and about "what's fun" than if you were just exploring the part of game-mechanical challenge-space lit by the streetlight of your game-runtime of choice.

> Miyamoto is not, and never really has been, what we would traditionally call a "game designer"—from what I can tell from reading numerous interviews, both with him and others who worked with him over the years, he's more like a Steve Jobs-type figure. he comes up with a broad interesting idea or set of ideas or even just general vibe, and then it's up to the programmers (and probably game designers nowadays) to figure out how to turn those ideas into an actual game.

I mean, "coming up with a broad interesting idea or set of ideas" is exactly what I've been talking about here — designing the game mechanics, coming up with the systems that both define and constrain the game-elements. I'm not talking about "game design" as in writing a design document, defining the whole game on a top-down level. I'm talking about finding a thing that makes the game into the game that it is; ideating the concept or system that can end up defining a new game series, or a whole new game genre.

Miyamoto does that. And I don't think he does it at a computer. (He probably mostly does it with his feet up on his desk, these days, since he's a very experienced designer at this point. But back when he designed Donkey Kong, he almost certainly designed it on paper. Especially because, for an arcade machine, the hardware to make the game possible to implement is designed in response to the game design!)

The other thing Miyamoto is, though, is a product manager. He says "no" to things. And so the ideas of the developers and game designers working below a Miyamoto-led (or Miyamoto-produced!) project, go through this veto filter — the output of which is almost always a very Miyamoto-esque game design, however much or little micromanagement he did of it.

Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#78
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're taking the phrase "paper prototyping" too literally. And also, perhaps, you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say when I speak of a "fun game mechanic." The original concept for Portal is actually really easy to prototype. (And Portal is also a very good thing to spend some time physically prototyping, because it's a challenging thing to code on a computer — especially without any resources from s…

> (And Portal is also a very good thing to spend some time physically prototyping, because it's a challenging thing to code on a computer — especially without any resources from someone who already figured out how to do it!) how so? implementing functional portals given that you have the Source engine to start from isn't difficult at all. sure, it took a little bit of work to make them look good, and to tidy up thing…

Not to mention the ‘simple’ physical prototype suggested is actually extremely labor intensive and requires a bunch of hand waving.

Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#79
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to the best of my understanding—but please correct me if I'm mistaken—Miyamoto is not, and never really has been, what we would traditionally call a "game designer"—from what I can tell from reading numerous interviews, both with him and others who worked with him over the years, he's more like a Steve Jobs-type figure. he comes up with a broad interesting idea or set of ideas or even just general vibe, and then it's…

> for example, that page of 300 video game design ideas are likely mostly or entirely interesting at face value—but without being tested, are basically entirely meaningless. You happened to pick one of the much less worked examples; and also one that I would argue really isn't a "game mechanic" in the way it's traditionally meant. Try https://www.squidi.net/three/entry.php?id=131 or https://www.squidi.net/three/entry…

Have you actually designed a game whether inexperienced or not?

You generate a lot of verbiage without a lot of insight IMO. Ruminating on how games might be designed is all very well but it isn’t how they’re actually designed. Don’t mistake your strong opinions for good advice whether to inexperienced or experienced designers.

Re: Making small games, which is fun in itself

#80
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're taking the phrase "paper prototyping" too literally. And also, perhaps, you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say when I speak of a "fun game mechanic." The original concept for Portal is actually really easy to prototype. (And Portal is also a very good thing to spend some time physically prototyping, because it's a challenging thing to code on a computer — especially without any resources from s…

> (And Portal is also a very good thing to spend some time physically prototyping, because it's a challenging thing to code on a computer — especially without any resources from someone who already figured out how to do it!) how so? implementing functional portals given that you have the Source engine to start from isn't difficult at all. sure, it took a little bit of work to make them look good, and to tidy up thing…

I think you totally misunderstood what "game-mechanics design" is if you're thinking that Valve would be the one to do game-mechanical prototyping.

The creators of Narbacular Drop — if their goal had been to make a AAA game ala Portal† — would be the people who should have sat down and worked things out with legos and pipecleaners.

† (Which it wasn't — they built a game basically as a class project, a proof-of-concept; they didn't care about making a fun game per se; about discovering a novel challenge-space wide enough to build out a set of scenarios deep enough that they could keep a player's attention for a few hours and make it seem worth $60 or whatever. They built levels just to prove that the physics worked.)

This is because, in order to actually implement Narbacular Drop, the creators had to sit down and write an entire custom game engine from scratch, to make their game possible.

(A.k.a. the "Sketcher Engine." The Source engine wasn't public in 2005! And no existing publicly-available game engine in 2005 had support for sub-rendering of secondary view frustums onto textures to be included in a primary view frustum; nor for "proxy" physics objects representing an object being in multiple places at once [Chell standing half-way through a portal] where both have collision but only with things on the same "side of the portal" they're in, so that they don't collide with their own alternate self. Oh, and even if they did — DigiPen doesn't let people in their game-design program use external black-box game engines in class projects. You always have to implement the game engine yourself.)

Insofar as Narbacular Drop is considered a separate game, though, Portal really doesn't have any novel game mechanics; it's entirely derivative (though it does combine the "3D traversal with portals" mechanics of Drop with more traditional 3D-puzzle-platformer and graphic-adventure game mechanics, to produce a novel — and very polished — game.)

As such, Valve didn't need to do any mechanical prototyping. Narbacular Drop was the proof-of-concept of the mechanics. Portal was a simple port of those mechanics into Valve's engine. You don't re-do mechanical ideation just to steal another game's mechanics. You already played the original; you already know the mechanics are good.

(I would note that Valve have never been one to innovate in game mechanics. Half-Life, for example, is an innovative game, but it's one built by taking a bunch of physics-toy interactions (e.g. exploding barrels) that were seen in older titles, and making a game entirely out of those interactions, where you're supposed to use them to kill enemies.)

> is this true? from my recollection, this all began in the wake of the release of the initial announcement trailer for the original Portal back in 2006.

The "Now You're Thinking With Portals" meme originated in 2007, yes.

But people have been trolling each-other with images of impossible 2D top-down puzzles saying something like "find the exit" — where one common "solution" is to draw a wormhole that takes you right to the exit — for years before that. And then parodying those, by drawing complex 2D-side-on platform-puzzler levels, where the player-avatar's route takes them through walls and narrow gaps.

This genre of meme-image doesn't really have a name of its own, which makes it hard to search. After portal, it evolved into the "Get The Cake" meme. But I can assure you that it existed before there was a cake involved!

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