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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#511

Post by ZeroGravitas »

axegon_ wrote: post #382

Here's a slightly different take: When I first tried electric cars, I absolutely loved them and really wanted one. However a few things to consider: 1. My country's infrastructure when it comes to electric cars is appalling. I'd be fine in the city but outside the city, I'm pretty screwed. 2. Winters: though climate change has softened winters down considerably but still, the fact that a full charge in summer gets yo…

Diesel or electric cars that already exist and aren't driven much are more eco friendly than building a new EV that isn't driven.

It's not really a solution for all the cars that are driven around the average 8-12 thousand miles a year though.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#512

Post by donatj »

For myself, someone who actually wants an electric car, a big part of the hesitation is that I'll have to basically give up my garage to our cars.

As is, it's basically a detached workspace - so my family having to park two cars in there makes an electric car a massive loss of usable square footage.

It would also likely mean having to rewire my garage which had an actual Fusebox from the 70s - a cost I'd love to avoid.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#513

Post by [deleted] »

bigyanshr wrote: post #253
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

If I am paying a huge amount for something, I would pay for something that fits my needs including the edge cases. No convincing necessary!!!

[deleted]

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#514

Post by heresie-dabord »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

> the vast majority of drivers take occasional trips that are beyond the range of an electric car. [...] no one is concerned with the EV getting through their commute

In a prosperous society, the economic activity that you describe (daily commute, occasional trip) is important. Commuting keeps workers working, and trips are part of people's quality of life.

So let's agree with your point that consumers are choosing the type of vehicle that will meet all their needs.

At the same time, US car manufacturers know their business well and have not delivered small EVs or small hybrid vehicles because the manufacturers have chosen to aim at Tesla's demographic (i.e. rich and "spendy"). It's clear that physics absurdities like the F150 Lightning or the Dodge RAM "RAM charger" are also aiming at rich and spendy customers. US manufacturers are delivering "autobesity".

The daily commute is a dire source of pollution, though.[1a , 1b]

And the combustion engine is also having dire health effects on society, therefore economic effects. At scale, combustion engines are bad for the environment and bad for people. [2]

We can understand that a topologically large country or US state can't build extensive public transportation as easily as a small country. Trains and subways are expensive. Parking and roads are "easier" to build. But parking and roadways are more of the same problem at scale.

The estimated 100 million daily trips in combustion engines are responsible for a significant amount of pollution in the US, contributing to asthma, lung cancer, autism, and Alzheimer's disease. [3]

A right-sized selection of EVs and PHEVs would make a big difference to people's quality of life and economic prosperity. But maybe the message needs to be delivered better and more clearly.

---

[1a] _ https://auto.howstuffworks.com/air-pollution-from-cars.htm

[1b] _ https://www.statista.com/chart/18208/means-of-transportation...

[2] _ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead%E2%80%93crime_hypothesis

[3] _ https://today.uconn.edu/2019/05/traffic-related-air-pollutio...

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#515

Post by jitl »

buckinkb wrote: post #348
jitl wrote: post #89

The electric offerings from most companies just don’t seem “there” yet. I don’t want a Tesla because AirPlay and adjustable aircon grates are non-negotiable for me, but the alternatives just don’t seem like a good bet yet. Hyundai is compelling, but most brands are offering electrified versions of non-EV platforms. An EV platform with low drag is much better, but outside of Tesla and Hyundai no one seems to be shippi…

You mean CarPlay? I worried about that before getting a model y, and it was really unfounded. If anything Tesla’s is better (at worst equal). I love not plugging in my phone every time (no maps on Bluetooth with CarPlay). Maybe turo a Tesla for a few days before making up your mind

I drive my parents’ Model S and Model Y whenever I visit them. I’m very familiar with the cars. I love everything about the drive, can’t stand the UX.

> I love not plugging in my phone every time (no maps on Bluetooth with CarPlay)

So far, I test drove an Toyota RAV4 Prime 2023, a Audi Q3 2020, and a Mercedes GLC 300 2024, all have wireless CarPlay that starts with 1 tap after I sit down in the car. The Toyota and Mercedes have an inductive charging spot for the phone.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#516

Post by mihaic »

lukas099 wrote: post #78
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

I think you're interpreting it wrong. Edge-cases matter a lot for quality of life, as some other comments illustrated well.

The solutions to these edge-cases don't need to be solved by the same thing that solves your average case though. Give me a fleet of large cars that I can rent whenever I have a long-distance drive, and maybe I'll consider not even owning a car.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#517

Post by omgJustTest »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

Another way to say "this is a strawman argument on range concerns" is to say "some people use their car as a primary mode of transportation, and struggle with normal issues with combustion engine car reliability... they aren't going to overpay for a less functional product, which may have other unknown concequences".

The majority of people don't know or care how their car works, they are busy with life.

Being dismissive of real and tangible concerns is a luxury of excess. Electric cars are fine in CA context, but there are plenty of learning curves with these cars. I've tried to rent an electric for rental car use when taking road trips to see how bad it is... Hertz has almost given up on Teslas and Lucid has started giving several to Enterprise and others to rent them out.

If you cant plug it in everywhere you park, for example in Colorado, there are some huge inefficiencies like battery heating/cooling losses which impact range up to 2x.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#519

Post by DrScientist »

lukas099 wrote: post #78
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

Your argument is the same as saying most people that live in cities don't actually need a car at all - just use public transport and perhaps hire a car for those odd occasions where you really need one.

I lived in a city for a decade without a car - and did exactly that - but when I had children - I found I needed both more certainty and more flexibility for my travel - so I got a car.

Don't underestimate those aspects - range impacts that flexibility ( not just range on a single journey, but cumulative range over a number of journeys without charging ).

Availability of charging points impacts both flexibility & certainty.

These are real concerns.

Range and charging are of course linked - if charging was easily available and very quick then range on one charge ceases to be much of an issue. If the range from a single charge is massive, then frequency of charge points is less of an issue.

So the good news is any improvement on either has a synergistic effect.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#520

Post by p0w3n3d »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

when people buy a car, they usually want an all-purpose car, to be able to do long trips as well. Usually, there is no room in a city for two cars, and there is no possibility of relying on rental cars during vacation/mid-term breaks, as everybody wants to borrow a car at that time.

Hence, having a long-range car makes sense for them and me, especially because my city wants to expel gas cars anyway.

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