Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#421

Post by martindbp » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:37 AM UTC

dcsommer wrote: post #160

iknowstuff wrote: post #45

Dumbass "journalists" with the usual clickbait. Explicitly MORE people are buying EVs: > Sure, sales of EVs keep going up — a record 300,000 cars sold in the US in the third quarter of 2023 were electric The only thing they're seeing is "but the pace of adoption has markedly slowed" -- no shit, have you seen the interest rates and price diffs? And which manufacturer grew the most? Oh that's right the only all-EV one.…

The point of the article is that rising EV sales, even at 87% in Norway (which yields only 20% EVs on the road), is not enough to fix the environmental problems of car driving. TFA talks about the need to end the car-size arms-race and the need for viable alternatives to car transportation as necessary for actually addressing the issues EV tax incentives are meant to tackle. Agreed the title is useless, but I found t…

That observation is completely pointless. Yes, even at 100% adoption it will take a long time to replace the whole fleet of cars, does that mean we shouldn't be doing it? Just the fact they bring this up shows they have an agenda.

Tesla is also recognizing this fact and it's one reason they're pushing for robotaxis, because robotaxis can increase utilization by 5x, the same as selling 5x as many cars.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#422

Post by theshrike79 » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:38 AM UTC

gamepsys wrote: post #129

rdtsc wrote: post #66

> But an analysis from CarGurus found that EV prices were still 28% higher than gas-vehicle prices on average. To me that is bonkers. When EVs were becoming popular, I was expecting to see super cheap, under $10k vehicles. That was the promise: forget about all the IC complicated gears, alternators, transmission, fuel pumps and imagine getting a motor and batteries, what could be simpler!". But no, we ended up with m…

The last time I bought a personal vehicle (2022) I did some math. I drive X miles a year, I pay Y for gas, I pay Z for electricity. I then compared some vehicles in the segment that fits my needs and found the ICE options to have a significantly lower cost of ownership for the 8-10 years I expect to operate the vehicle. So I left the extra 15 grand in stock, which will see a much higher rate of return than an EV woul…

I bought an EV because it needs way less regular maintenance. I don't need to do oil changes or replace parts at an interval defined by the manufacturer. I don't even need to go to a gas station.

And every time I leave home, I've got a full tank, charged with cheap electricity.

And as a bonus it's really comfortable to drive, including having the ability to keep itself cool/warm even when the engine is not running.

IF I went purely by numbers the best choice would've been to buy a 2000€ car drive it until it breaks down. Then just call a taxi for the rest of the trip and buy a new similar one online for the next day. I could've bought 20 shitty cars for the price of my EV. But that's stress I don't want in my life.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#423

Post by LightBug1 » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:38 AM UTC

I'm a fan of EV technology, I'm as green as they come and love nature, our lungs, and believe in climate change and the need to pull the planet back from that.

And I have absolutely no intention of buying an EV.

My balance is to run older cars, much less. I commute to work by train, I walk to the supermarkets and back, I cycle sometimes.

For longer distances, I might bust out our 2005 5 door Toyota ... for fun, I'll roll out a 69 Bug at the weekend ... I have some other classics in mind.

I got excited about EV's, Tesla, etc about 10 years ago ... and the passion has absolutely fizzled out.

I've spent time with a few and they're boring computers (and I love computers). I firmly believe that maintaing older cars and using them less is much better for the enviroment overall. AND, importantly, I still enjoy the hell out of my cars.

The only EV I got mildly excited about, recently, for looks was the ioniq 5 ... that looks pretty badasss ... but even that has faded. All the rest look like something I'd ride to the airport. They almost all have the design language of a taxi-cab.

I'm not sure what EV companies can do to reach me. But add me to the list of fewer people buying electric cars.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#424

Post by gumballindie » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:38 AM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #66

> But an analysis from CarGurus found that EV prices were still 28% higher than gas-vehicle prices on average. To me that is bonkers. When EVs were becoming popular, I was expecting to see super cheap, under $10k vehicles. That was the promise: forget about all the IC complicated gears, alternators, transmission, fuel pumps and imagine getting a motor and batteries, what could be simpler!". But no, we ended up with m…

> When EVs were becoming popular, I was expecting to see super cheap, under $10k vehicles.

And you will see super cheap evs as soon as the market for those thinking they are saving the planet is exhausted. As with any product, it’s easier to exploit emotional buyers. And once tesla and others will want to tap into the practical buyer market prices will drop.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#425

Post by yurishimo » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:38 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #401

brightball wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a used Model 3 for a little under 40k with a payment of about $500 / month. I was previously spending $500 / month in gas. The vehicle is literally paying for itself based on my usage. Now, if you’re driving less the math may not work out but the cost of fuel alone has to factor into those annual maintenance costs.

> I was previously spending $500 / month in gas. To me this seems extreme, what would you say the average gas price is for you and what cars do you drive and what's their fuel efficiency?

This does indeed sound extreme. Even when my wife was commuting 120miles a day, we never spent that much in gas (2012 Honda CR-V). This was from 2018-2022, so lots of variability in prices.

I suppose with a truck or large SUV, it's possible to spend that much, or a commute that is hundreds of miles. Ah, one more scenario, if you have a luxury car and fill it up with premium fuel, that can raise the price substantially.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#426

Post by oblio » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:39 AM UTC

nonethewiser wrote: post #211

It’s because they’re worse cars.

They have (1) worse range, they're (2) heavier and (3) more expensive. 1 and 3 are a big deal, but except for these metrics, aren't EVs superior in every respect to ICEs?

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#427

Post by Vespasian » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:39 AM UTC

unhammer wrote: post #339

> Though the new-vehicle sales figure is high, data from Statistics Norway indicates the total share of EVs on Norwegian roads in 2022 was only about 20% I followed the link buy couldn't find the source for this claim. The linked page talks about Registered vehicles (many of which will be car#2 etc), while https://www.ssb.no/en/transport-og-reiseliv/landtransport/st... about miles driven isn't split into EV/fossil. A…

Also did the author expect people would trash perfectly functioning ICE cars all at once?

20% of all cars on the street is nothing short of amazing.

Such a weird article.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#428

Post by sgu999 » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:41 AM UTC

audunw wrote: post #376

rdtsc wrote: post #66

> But an analysis from CarGurus found that EV prices were still 28% higher than gas-vehicle prices on average. To me that is bonkers. When EVs were becoming popular, I was expecting to see super cheap, under $10k vehicles. That was the promise: forget about all the IC complicated gears, alternators, transmission, fuel pumps and imagine getting a motor and batteries, what could be simpler!". But no, we ended up with m…

The problem is that if they made a sub $10k vehicle now, "everyone" would buy it. That sounds great, but there's simply not enough battery factories to make the batteries for that many vehicles. The demand for expensive vehicles is still high enough that most of the EV battery factory output of the world can go to those expensive high margin vehicles, so of course the car makers haven't focused on low cost. There are…

I keep on seeing this problem reduced to the market or a business decision, but is it simply physically possible?

These vehicles require much more energy to produce. And without a reduction in consumption, almost the entire economy accounts for the availability of the same materials in the near future to meet carbon emissions targets. It's not just cars in vacuum.

It feels like we simply don't accept yet that the time of cheap energy is over...

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#429

Post by JoBrad » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:46 AM UTC

lukas099 wrote: post #78

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

I make a 7-hour, ~600 mile trip 3-4 times a year. Most of that trip is through very rural areas in the Southeast, and I’m generally doing this at the end of the year (cold temps), or in the heat of summer, when batteries have the least range. It does seem like the next generation of batteries will be where I need them in the next year or so, but I’m also not going to spend $50k on a mid-tier vehicle, so we’ll see.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#430

Post by eemil » Thu, Jan 04, 2024, 9:47 AM UTC

lukas099 wrote: post #78

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

Absolutely. I drive a small two seat convertible, and I could just as easily go without it on account of taxis, friends cars, rentals, home delivery, etc. And in many cases, I do rely on those.