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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#351

Post by gwnywg »

deviantbit wrote: post #224

"EV should be able to do everything a gas car can" I disagree with this article. I have a 2023 Polestar that I've had for about 10 months. I will be trading it when my new gasoline Audi arrives in the next week or so. I'll never have another electric vehicle. They tell you things that are not true. The cost of ownership of electric vehicles is much higher than gasoline, especially if you travel. It takes twice as lon…

This comment touches real problems, I was thinking about purchasing EV but was worried about things touched in that comment. It makes me thinking I should wait a bit longer.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#352

Post by freddie_mercury »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #193
iknowstuff wrote: post #45

Dumbass "journalists" with the usual clickbait. Explicitly MORE people are buying EVs: > Sure, sales of EVs keep going up — a record 300,000 cars sold in the US in the third quarter of 2023 were electric The only thing they're seeing is "but the pace of adoption has markedly slowed" -- no shit, have you seen the interest rates and price diffs? And which manufacturer grew the most? Oh that's right the only all-EV one.…

Correct. Tesla just closed another record quarter. And BYD just surpassed them as the largest EV producer in the world. Both of those things are true because the overall market keeps on growing very rapidly. Which means Tesla can break it's own records and yet not be the largest anymore because another company is growing even faster. We're in a major economic down turn because of things like global pandemics and othe…

We're not in a major economic downturn.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#353

Post by moepstar »

avgDev wrote: post #18
TexanFeller wrote: post #15

I want an EV to be more reliable and save me more money in the long run. EVs start out ~10k more than the Corolla most people should buying. They then compromise the long term reliability and maintenance cost with high tech gee whiz features. I’d sooner have manual roll up windows than touch screen controlled air vents. When you integrate sensors and software controls into every little thing, we know those things wil…

That is one of the issues for me. Plus, the only viable EV now for me is Tesla, but they keep making silly decisions and are just an odd automaker. By silly decisions I mean things like removal of turn signal stalk, removal of parking sensors, lack of a gauge in field of view(y, 3), etc. I love ability to buy online. I hate the lack of an online parts catalog where I can purchase OEM parts. This is a big issue for me…

> I hate the lack of an online parts catalog where I can purchase OEM parts. This is a big issue for me. I have enough experience to do anything on ICE car myself, engine rebuild included.

It seems you're not aware that not only the parts catalog is available online for basically everyone [1] but also their repair guides / service manuals [2]?

None cost anything to access, [2] is a free subscription and only costs something if you need their software ("Toolbox") which you can book for a certain time.

[1] https://epc.tesla.com/ [2] https://service.tesla.com/service-manuals

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#354

Post by Rebelgecko »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #217
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

I almost bought an EV, but road trips became a blocker. I have family about 4 hours drive away. Outside of my town and my destination, there are 3 chargers that can charge an EV in a reasonable amount of time (less than 2 hours). They're all Electrify America, which are pretty unreliable. I'd have to stop at each and every one of them to ensure I could actually make the four hour drive. Unbelievably annoying.

That's surprising, even when I've used EA chargers that were derated to ~50kW it's never taken me more than 30 minutes to charge. Usually more like 15 minutes. Fwiw I've found that the app is pretty reliable at saying when individual chargers at a station are down (although the status can be a bit misleading when there's cars waiting to charge)

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#355

Post by xxs »

throwitaway222 wrote: post #65
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

This. I'm not sure why plugin hybrids are not a thing.... actually, I don't even want a plugin "hybrid" I want an EV that never uses the ICE unless you run out of power, then it's just an ICE vehicle entirely... In other words I want something they will never build.

> I'm not sure why plugin hybrids are not a thing.... actually, I don't even want a plugin "hybrid" I want an EV that never uses the ICE unless you run out of power, then it's just an ICE vehicle entirely...

This is the default setup for mine, it starts on battery unless it's too cold (e.g. today's morning was -22C). Li-Ion batteries don't like cold (or heat), esp. don't like charging at negative temperatures.

In short they are a thing, and a rather pleasant one; as a side bonus the combined power of the two engines is quite nice, e.g. taking large trucks at two lane roads (pedal to the metal does engage both engines)

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#356

Post by Rebelgecko »

throwitaway222 wrote: post #65
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

This. I'm not sure why plugin hybrids are not a thing.... actually, I don't even want a plugin "hybrid" I want an EV that never uses the ICE unless you run out of power, then it's just an ICE vehicle entirely... In other words I want something they will never build.

Whe I priced them out, PHEVs were such a premium over regular hybrids that they didn't really make sense. I figured if I bought a Prius Prime and got my catalytic converter stolen just once, I'd have bee better off financially just buying an above average (in cost) EV

YMMV if you have a super long commute.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#357

Post by coldtea »

mvdtnz wrote: post #161
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

The edge cases are the important cases though. Those parties I throw are the highlight of my year. My parents staying here with me is important to me, I wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah I have a desk job but that landscaping work I do in my weekend is one of my favourite hobbies. I refuse to live my life as if these things aren't important to me. I refuse to average my entire life style down to my median day. My…

>I refuse to live my life as if these things aren't important to me.

How about living it as if those things are more important to you that the way they are achieved?

You can see your friends and throw parties without a dining room - set a table in the living room or set up a meeting in some place. Or go see your parents more often at their place, and when they come, spend more time with them and do stuff wherever they stay at. Or do the landscaping work without a pickup truck, like millions of people managed.

An insistance on the rare edge cases is not about "refusing to average an entire life style down to the median day". It's acquiscing to the median day, and then using the edge cases as if they mean you haven't.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#358

Post by realusername »

screye wrote: post #242
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

I disagree. The sustainable alternative to EVs is hybrids, not gas guzzlers. Hybrids can be smaller, cheaper, lighter and gentler on the grid. Each of these matter. Heavier cars cause significantly higher road wear [1], particulate pollution [2] and occupy more space. EVs by necessity, are heavier. This is especially evident in America's favorite product categories : SUVs and Trucks. The Ford- F150 lightning is 1.5x…

That's because the American car market is pure nonsense, it's not a problem of EV.

My own electric car is close to half the weight of a petrol F150. So the F150 uses more petrol and wears more tire as well.

Those kind of massive cars are only needed for farmers and construction workers in the first place.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#359

Post by lukas099 »

noduerme wrote: post #230
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

From a programming perspective, "edge cases", are actually failure modes. A single failure can be extremely expensive and wipe out years of marginal benefit that was accrued by ignoring them. I'm not sure I can think of a strong argument for consciously living your life in a way which ignores potential failure modes, unless you're pretty sure you've projected the hidden costs and are prepared at any moment to pay the…

If you've actually multiplied the likelihood by the costs & benefits of the different options and come to that conclusion that's fine.

There are an infinite number of edge cases that can lead to total failure, so it is not rational to try to account for something solely on that basis.

> The cost of finding and paying someone else twice a year to haul wood or supplies can easily justify the extra cost of a larger vehicle, for example.

Wait, what? It costs like $50 to rent a pickup truck from Lowes. You don't have to hire somebody just because you're renting the truck. Driving a larger vehicle probably costs most people that much in gas costs alone in one month.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#360

Post by lukas099 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #329
lukas099 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

The first 2 are not so silly as these "unused rooms" can have other functionality. The dining room becomes an office, or a retreat. In a crisis this extra capacity could be accommodation for an out of luck friend or relative, or rent out the room. The 3rd one might be more silly :-) I agree people should consider how much of an edge case it is though, and make a good decision. Even if "well it is an edge case but wha…

If one is using the spare rooms for other functionality, and actually using them consistently, that's not really what I was talking about.

> I agree people should consider how much of an edge case it is though, and make a good decision. Even if "well it is an edge case but what the hell".

Well put; wish I had said it so succinctly :)

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