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SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

nytimes.com

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Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#141

Post by the_doctah »

maxbond wrote: post #58
imgabe wrote: post #36

8 out of 13,000 employees wanted to circulate a letter complaining about Musk's tweets and the Labor board claims they were "illegally" fired over this. Which law specifically requires employers to permit every employee to spam the company with their personal grievances? This isn't union organization or whistleblowing. They could use a little more detail on how and why they believe this firing is illegal.

I spent about fifteen minutes poking around. I'm not sure, but I take the impression this is in fact protected organizing, at least according to the NLRB. It seems like this is seen by NLRB as workers expressing concern and advocating for better working conditions (eg free of Musk's distractions), and the company retaliating against them. (To be clear, I have no idea whether the case has merit or not, my only claim i…

Gonna have a hell of a time proving the boss's tweets have anything to do with working conditions.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#142

Post by throwaway2037 »

disclosureacct wrote: post #106
Dig1t wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You have the right to act with co-workers to address work-related issues How do Musk’s personal statements/opinions outside of work count as work-related issues? Genuinely asking, I don’t understand how these rules are enforced. Apple has locked down internal communications about non work-related topics on internal slack and email in the wake of RTO discussions. If this is grounds for a lawsuit, I think other compan…

> How do Musk’s personal statements/opinions outside of work count as work-related issues? Are the communications from an account listed as their corporate disclosure account?

My guess: The most senior employees (C-suite and close to it) have special responsibilities and legally much great accountability. What a CEO of a public company says on public media (including Twitter/X) has far greater legal consequences for the company and the CEO than someone a few steps below. This is pretty normal for highly developed countries. Note: Responsibilities may change in different countries depending upon if the company is private or public.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#143

Post by YetAnotherNick »

Eisenstein wrote: post #130
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Abuse of power is a relative term. If something is the norm, then doing it is not abuse. It's fine in most companies to complain about the boss to HR or to the boss themselves, but not fine to complain it to someone else. If I had bad boss who isn't doing anything illegal or breaks company's policy, I would likely switch my job rather than taking the impossible task of fixing them if they don't want to fix themselves…

> If something is the norm, then doing it is not abuse. Abuse is abuse regardless of whether it is normalized in a company, but it is also against the law in this case specifically, so it is obviously not 'the norm'. > If I had bad boss who isn't doing anything illegal or breaks company's policy, I would likely switch my job rather than taking the impossible task of fixing them if they don't want to fix themselves. T…

> but it is also against the law in this case specifically, so it is obviously not 'the norm'.

Law IS the norm. And I could definitely bet there is no law in US which says that employee can spam other employees about how their boss is bad.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#144

Post by maxbond »

charcircuit wrote: post #117
maxbond wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent about fifteen minutes poking around. I'm not sure, but I take the impression this is in fact protected organizing, at least according to the NLRB. It seems like this is seen by NLRB as workers expressing concern and advocating for better working conditions (eg free of Musk's distractions), and the company retaliating against them. (To be clear, I have no idea whether the case has merit or not, my only claim i…

Reading Twitter is not a part of the workplave

Public statements by your CEO can easily impact your work. Twitter might have a trivial and lighthearted feel, but that doesn't detract. Eg, when Musk tweeted he was taking Tesla public, it was probably very disruptive, regardless of the medium. I think one of the lessons of the last few years has been that things people say on Twitter do, in fact, matter a great deal.

ETA: I had a brain fart and thought we were talking about Tesla, but the example is illustrative nonetheless.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#145

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #131
sumeno wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His conception of free speech is that he should be able to say whatever he wants with no consequences. It doesn't go beyond that, he doesn't want other people to be able to say whatever they want with no consequences unless they're saying nice things about him.

I am sure Musk has lot but issues but he has repeatedly said and acted like he is fine with consequences of his speech. Like he is fine with advertisers leaving twitter/X[1] for his speech. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK91Ji6GCZ8

1. The advertisers didn't leave Twitter (in the instance being discussed there) because of Musk's speech, they left because it was pointed out that their ads were being displayed amongst tweets containing hate speech.

2. That interview is not him acting "fine" with those advertisers leaving; it's him emotionally lashing out in anger at them for doing so.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#146

Post by maxbond »

the_doctah wrote: post #141
maxbond wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent about fifteen minutes poking around. I'm not sure, but I take the impression this is in fact protected organizing, at least according to the NLRB. It seems like this is seen by NLRB as workers expressing concern and advocating for better working conditions (eg free of Musk's distractions), and the company retaliating against them. (To be clear, I have no idea whether the case has merit or not, my only claim i…

Gonna have a hell of a time proving the boss's tweets have anything to do with working conditions.

I don't think that's the burden of proof though, I think they have to prove they were fired in retaliation.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#147

Post by [deleted] »

dralley wrote: post #113
jeswin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"On this platform". That's not circulating grievances/politics on a company's internal channels. How are we confusing these two?

First of all, let's dispense with the notion that "on twitter" actually matters, given the man is so petty that he canceled a dude's Tesla order over a tweet that criticized him. Anyway: "grievances/politics" It came out that he paid a $250,000 settlement for a sexual harassment suit and he decided to respond to this by making jokes on twitter, quote: “Hi Chad, long time no see! Fine, if you touch my wiener, you can…

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#148

Post by etchalon »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #139
etchalon wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If something is the norm, then doing it is not abuse The sheer number of historical atrocities this would excuse is almost hilarious.

The world swings and the things which looks like abuse changes. And it's not like people are not dying due to their norms. We need to change their norm from within.

I don't think what looks like abuse changes. I think what abuse we're OK with changes.

Domestic abuse was always abuse. It always looked like abuse. We always knew it was abuse.

But, for a very, very long time, society was totally cool with it.

Re: SpaceX Illegally Fired Workers Critical of Musk, Federal Agency Says

#150

Post by gambiting »

throwaway09223 wrote: post #100
mixdup wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>your job is...not criticize the owners of the company outside of work So companies now own 24 hours of their employees' day?

Certainly not. In a similar vein, the employees don't own their position at the company. Employment arrangements are made through mutual agreements. If the company says something an employee doesn't like, the employee is free to leave. If the employee says something the company doesn't like, the company is free to dismiss the employee. It's astounding that the NRLB is defending an insubordination termination after ac…

>>If the employee says something the company doesn't like, the company is free to dismiss the employee.

Except they are not, even in the US with its meagre employee protections there are entire classes of protected activity that you cannot be fired for, and discussing your working conditions while at work(and being critical of them) is protected.

>>This is pretty obviously a political prosecution

Going after the people who break the law is political now? Fascinating. What's next, we let burglars walk free if they are of a specific political belief?

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