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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#101

Post by simplyluke »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

“Never cross a river that is on average 4 feet deep” comes to mind here, to borrow from Taleb.

Most people I know take annual or more frequent road trips for travel, sport, or to visit family in neighboring states. These aren’t edge cases, they’re normal and predictable parts of peoples lives.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#102

Post by krallja »

camel_gopher wrote: post #64
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

Sounds like the use case is perfect for a hybrid which does 30 miles electric.

Love my 38-mile summer / 31-mile winter PHEV for exactly this reason. I’ve bought maybe a dozen tanks of gas over the past two years.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#104

Post by bsder »

camel_gopher wrote: post #64
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

Sounds like the use case is perfect for a hybrid which does 30 miles electric.

It was called the Chevy Volt. GM discontinued making them because the Bolt is sooooo much cheaper to produce.

Everybody knows that hybrids are a stopgap and will go obsolete. Consequently, there is negative motivation to produce hybrids.

The problem is that nobody knows when hybrids will go obsolete. If you recommend manufacturing them and they go obsolete during your corporate political tenure, you're screwed.

Govenments need to start subsidizing charging stations just like they subsidized filling stations along interstates and turnpikes. That way we can just make the jump to pure electrics.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#105

Post by pengaru »

klardotsh wrote: post #17
stalfosknight wrote: post #7

I would like an EV but not if it means I'm forced into an SUV, crossover, or some other huge land whale.

Yep. The Chevy Bolt (not EUV version) was the absolute perfect size in EVs - nice compact hatchback, plenty of storage room, still a standard 5-seat layout (albeit the seats were... not the most comfortable ever), could park it absolutely anywhere even in Seattle, excellent. I sold that car in 2020. Fast forward about 4 years and the EV market is all just soulless massive tanks needing Oversized Load flagging trucks…

+1 on the Bolt EV. I've been riding passenger in one pretty often lately, and it seems pretty damn good for a GM econobox EV. Not overboard in the crazy vaporware/unfinished tech garbage like a Tesla, and the 200hp/3500lbs is totally adequate. Could use a bit more range, but it's enough for most peeps IMO.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#106

Post by teeray »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

> The argument is a clear strawman; it's playing down what people have genuine concerns with and focusing on the range aspect that's obviously unimportant

It’s not a strawman if suddenly it costs hundreds more to rent a car to go visit the grandparents for the holidays. That doesn’t scale either because everyone will want a long range vehicle for holiday travel, making costs for them soar and availability drop.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#107

Post by jandrewrogers »

rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

It is even worse for people like me, despite having a charger in my home. I almost never drive short distances, I walk everywhere locally. When I do drive, it is very long distances, and in those cases range and refill time counts for a lot. On their best days EVs have inferior range and in many conditions they have markedly inferior range. Add on top of that the lengthy recharge time (topping off a gas tank is idea of EVs, they are just really inferior for many common driving patterns in the US. Not everyone does 100% of their driving in the suburbs or has the ability to charge at home.

My minimum buying criteria for an EV is simple: high ground clearance, all-wheel drive, and 650+km range with a car full of people and luggage in freezing temperatures. Trivial to buy in a gas car for not much money and essential for many people in the US.

We will know EVs have arrived when Americans in the mountain west start trading their Subarus for Teslas.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#108

Post by hansvm »

pxeboot wrote: post #72
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

My next car will be an EV. I have no concern about the advertised range. The real worry is what the range will look like in 5-10 years when it is cold out.

That's new to me. I thought cold only impacted peak power, not total energy.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#109

Post by WrongAssumption »

lukas099 wrote: post #78
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

People focus too much on edge cases when making life decisions, imo. > We need a dining room for when we have parties (has a party once every 2 years; room sits empty 99% of the time) > We need a guest bedroom (guests could stay at the hotel down the street) > I need a pickup truck (driver is an accountant who maybe picks up a couple bags of mulch from Lowes twice a year) I'm glad I live in a prosperous society where…

So would you buy a car with a 50 mile range?

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#110

Post by toomuchtodo »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #107
rappatic wrote: post #60

The article talks about range concerns as if they're simply incorrect or ill-founded: > Niedermeyer said that while an electric car can meet most people's driving needs, it struggles with edge cases like road trips because of the need to recharge. Since Americans have been promised a one-to-one substitute for their gas cars, this seems like a failure; an EV should be able to do everything a gas car can. This idea per…

It is even worse for people like me, despite having a charger in my home. I almost never drive short distances, I walk everywhere locally. When I do drive, it is very long distances, and in those cases range and refill time counts for a lot. On their best days EVs have inferior range and in many conditions they have markedly inferior range. Add on top of that the lengthy recharge time (topping off a gas tank is idea…

> We will know EVs have arrived when Americans in the mountain west start trading their Subarus for Teslas.

No need to get the laggards onboard, you simply need to get to the inflection point where the petroleum supply chain is no longer sustainable (due to demand falling through minimum economic viable throughput). Still at least 10-15 years out, as the US accounts for ~35% global oil consumption. US EV uptake is still too early to see where the weakness is from well to pump, but those Achilles heels will appear eventually. Some consumers may not get the EV they want before they lose the gas stations nearby they have.

Japan shows us the future in usual fashion: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/13/japanese-refineries-clo... ("Japanese Refineries Close As The Country’s Petroleum Consumption Falls")

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/how-el... ("How electric vehicles are accelerating the end of the oil age")

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