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U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

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Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#371

I vote we ban all free public parking and let the free market determine how much parking there is and where.

The free market will reward massive retailers with lots of parking space that exist in the suburbs. There is no pre-existing infrastructure to bring customers to these parking-free locations in most cities. Furthermore, semi-urban neighborhoods and alleys will enter a battlefield between tow trucks and illegally parked cars.

There is already a lot of private parking infrastructure in cities, and it wouldn't take long for profit-seekers to build new parking garages where demand exists. The new law could include a phase-out period if it's a problem.

Over time the suburban big-box retailers will lose as fewer people will drive cars.

Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#372
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you let the free market decide the answer will be "a lot" and "everywhere there's business that want customers from outside walking distance" and "everywhere there's apartments and houses that don't have garages." Parking minimums are one of those things that are a huge PITA when you hit edge cases but when you go to city council meetings residents and business owners ask for more and cheaper parking because it dr…

> You can't remove parking in isolation, I genuinely wish you could. You have to fix the reason people want it in the first place. This is both blindingly obvious and incredibly frequently overlooked. Here's the 5-step plan for improving our city: 1. Remove parking spots. 2-5. We'll figure it out later; I promise.

You see it that way; I see it as we are taking one major step toward the goal.

Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#373
post #281

I vote we ban all free public parking and let the free market determine how much parking there is and where.

If you let the free market decide the answer will be "a lot" and "everywhere there's business that want customers from outside walking distance" and "everywhere there's apartments and houses that don't have garages." Parking minimums are one of those things that are a huge PITA when you hit edge cases but when you go to city council meetings residents and business owners ask for more and cheaper parking because it dr…

> when you go to city council meetings residents and business owners ask for more and cheaper parking because it draws in business and keeps street parking available for residents.

Apparently not that much, since that's the point of the article.

> If you let the free market decide the answer will be "a lot"

I'm sure there will still be a lot of parking, but at least it will be

   1. Allocated more optimally in space (businesses who don't need it won't build it)

   2. Paid for by those who use it, not subsidized by those who don't

   3. Built more vertically, thereby taking up less real estate

   4. Not in the perfect spot for a bike lane or sidewalk

Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#374

[flagged]

Dense urbanization is not the point. We need medium density. Bikeable. There should be more housing choices than an apartment in a giant building by a highway OR a single family home with a big yard out in the suburbs. With relaxed zoning, small developers could start building smaller multifamily homes that regular people can afford to buy so they don't have to choose betwen renting one of those apartments or being "house poor". We used to have that medium density housing; it's what lends many older neighborhoods their charm. Make it legal to build again!

And with a medium density, less car-centric neighborhood, people can reasonably walk or bike to work, the grocery store, etc., meaning a car is optional and it's easy to get exercise. Right now we drive everywhere, spend loads of money on cars and roads, and wonder why we are so fat! It is not cheap, healthy, or sustainable to base our communities on the idea that everyone must buy a 3-5 bedroom house on a quarter acre in the suburbs and commute 30 minutes in a Jeep.

People are not leaving California because it's too dense, they're leaving because it stopped building homes.

Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#375
post #3

It’s one thing to ditch parking minimums, but it has to be matched with investment in public transit. Simply eliminating parking spots doesn’t eliminate demand when there are no other options for getting around. And I suspect the public transit investment will be way more controversial and difficult to implement.

I wish they'd be a little less one-size-fits-all. Nixing parking minimums for businesses in already-walkable, transit-connected downtown cores is overdue, and areas close to that density can easily become new downtown cores when infill is allowed to cover their parking lots. Nixing parking minimums for downtown apartments, to your point, is a terrible idea (outside the densest areas of NYC at least, where parking min…

Speaking for my metro area, while it is true that there are significant resources in Express routes and other commuter-movers to get people into the downtown hub, a secondary, or even primary aim of our transit system is to GET PEOPLE SHOPPING.

Our transit centers are literally hosted by shopping malls, more often than not, until they are significant enough to be freestanding or independent of such malls. The routes are carefully planned to get people from one major retail center to another; the stops stop in front of stores, restaurants, and venues; it's all quite transparently consumer-focused.

The transit system here would look significantly different if they concentrated on moving workers to places of business. Transit riders work in certain areas which simply aren't served at all by transit. Take call centers, for example: a call center is usually situated in a business park or industrial zone. This will not have bus stops. I worked in a call center where I'd take my bicycle every day to ride the last mile, quite literally.

I regularly negotiate with recruiters about commute distance, and it's always my chore to explain how distance means a different thing to a transit rider: I can ride the train a long ways and it's a short, easy commute; if I need to transfer 2 buses it's a huge pain, 3 hours each way, even if it's 1/3rd of the distance of that single train ride.

Transit systems which serve upper-middle-class workers in downtown hubs do it because those workers find it impractical to park downtown, not because they can't afford private vehicle ownership. I took advantage of Caltrain in the Bay Area, just so I didn't put so many miles on my car.

Transit systems like mine don't actually serve the proletariat nor support our commuting needs; they're fundamentally here to encourage consumerism and stimulate retail economies, and that's how they score such massive subsidies that they hardly even need people to pay fares.

Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#376

[flagged]

You can just say 'I don't like this' instead of making up a bunch of 'just so stories' about why. Fine if you don't like density, but the whole pseudo-science `Dense urbanization is detrimental to health, physical and mental` is just mental.

I live in a downtown high rise. It’s 25 degrees outside, I have a lady friend who lives a mile away. I feel unsafe riding public transit at night here, much less her. She experiences extreme harassment walking here during the day (did it once, never again, I was on the phone with her, it was horrifying).

How do you propose she visit me without a car and available parking?

Uber would cost her more than an hour of her workday.

GP is damn right the opposition to parking is detrimental to health physical and mental as well as wealth.

Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#377
post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't see buildings without that being commercially successful There is no parking ban being enacted. It is a removal of an arbitrary parking minimum. If they can't sell the properties without it why would they remove parking?

Exactly what about my comment makes you think I believe that anyone will?

If it is a non-issue, why raise it?

Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#378
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the cause at all. Extreme minority poverty and the potent bifurcation of incomes, education and wealth in the US is the cause. Parking won't fix any of that realistically. You can push minority poverty to the suburbs, which for example is what France does, however it doesn't solve anything about the bombed out look, it merely redistributes the problem to somewhere else. You can gentrify the cities and push…

as usual, it’s probably a mixture of many things, and poverty is one, property prices is another, and there are certainly many many others. we (engineering types) have this terrible habit of declaring that it is One Thing when in reality, complex problems are… complicated. shocking, i know. it isn’t a simple math problem with a one answer. human problems are significantly more chaotic and fractal. i don’t want to imp…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. cities opt to ditch their off-street parking minimums

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other tactic is 'do something to reduce car dependency'.

That's my whole point. Just getting rid of parking doesn't reduce car dependency if there aren't better alternatives.

Your whole point is 'make political will and funding for broad public transit building programs appear out of thin air' or else 'do nothing'.

Your claim is that 'getting rid of parking' is what is being pushed, when it is getting rid of mandatory, arbitrary parking minimums.

If there is needed parking it will be built because developers don't like building tenancies that don't get sold because no one can live there.

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