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Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

businessinsider.com

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Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#21

Post by thebruce87m »

avgDev wrote: post #18
TexanFeller wrote: post #15

I want an EV to be more reliable and save me more money in the long run. EVs start out ~10k more than the Corolla most people should buying. They then compromise the long term reliability and maintenance cost with high tech gee whiz features. I’d sooner have manual roll up windows than touch screen controlled air vents. When you integrate sensors and software controls into every little thing, we know those things wil…

That is one of the issues for me. Plus, the only viable EV now for me is Tesla, but they keep making silly decisions and are just an odd automaker. By silly decisions I mean things like removal of turn signal stalk, removal of parking sensors, lack of a gauge in field of view(y, 3), etc. I love ability to buy online. I hate the lack of an online parts catalog where I can purchase OEM parts. This is a big issue for me…

The batteries have an 8 year warranty, by which point it will be cheaper to replace them. You probably won’t have to since NMC batteries will last 1,000 cycles x 200 miles = 200,000 miles. LFP batteries will be 3x that.

Edit: not sure why this is attracting downvotes

Here is proof of the 8 year warranty:

> 8 years or 100,000 miles

( Note: I chose to quote the lowest mileage to avoid controversy )

https://www.tesla.com/en_gb/support/vehicle-warranty

Here is NMC vs LFP:

> A key advantage of LFP is its longer life cycle, resulting in less degradation concerns. LFP packs are capable of more than 3000 full recharge cycle counts compared to NMC at around 1000 to 2000 cycles.

https://zecar.com/resources/what-are-lfp-nmc-nca-batteries-i...

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#22

Post by nostrademons »

BobaFloutist wrote: post #20
nostrademons wrote: post #4

A lot of common talking points from the anti-EV FUD going around - EVs are heavier, sales are going down (even though they're not, according to the data presented in the article), EVs don't have enough range. Ask an EV owner and they don't care. It's almost like there might be vested corporate interests (say, Big Oil?) pushing a narrative here? https://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Someone does need to pay to maintain the roads, however, and if ICEs become a smaller and smaller part of cars on the roads, the gas tax will cover less and less of the cost (and they already don't fully cover the costs of road maintenance).

Somehow this wasn't an issue when it was everybody switching from compact hatchbacks to SUVs and pickups, which is a similar weight increase as going from an ICE to EV sedan. (In practice, what happened is that nobody bothered to pay for the increase in road maintenance and we just live with poorly maintained roads now.)

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#23

Post by BobaFloutist »

nostrademons wrote: post #22
BobaFloutist wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone does need to pay to maintain the roads, however, and if ICEs become a smaller and smaller part of cars on the roads, the gas tax will cover less and less of the cost (and they already don't fully cover the costs of road maintenance).

Somehow this wasn't an issue when it was everybody switching from compact hatchbacks to SUVs and pickups, which is a similar weight increase as going from an ICE to EV sedan. (In practice, what happened is that nobody bothered to pay for the increase in road maintenance and we just live with poorly maintained roads now.)

I'm ignoring the weight increase, just saying that people that only own EVs will not pay the gas tax, and will therefore contribute far less to the cost of road maintenance.

There's a similar shifting dynamic in solar power, where much of the cost of utilities is actually for distribution and maintenance, and as long as you're connected to the grid you're contributing to that cost, but to encourage people to use less power more of the cost is priced into the $/kWh price, which all breaks down when you're generating most of your own power but still using the grid.

It's an interesting economic problem, and I don't think there are any super obviously "fair" solutions right away.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#24

Post by lesuorac »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #10

> If there's any direct inspiration for the United States' EV policy, it's Norway. As the story goes, Norway introduced some compelling subsidies for EVs Ah yup... Norway, sitting on gigantic oil reserves. Reserves so huge they could decide to just give the finger to the EU and not join. So huge there's a fund benefiting, AFAIK, all Norway citizens. I'm not criticizing Norway. But citing Norway as some kind of EV pos…

> Ah yup... Norway, sitting on gigantic oil reserves.

If only the US had oil. I can't imagine what we could do if we produced 5x the oil that Norway does.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#25

Post by avgDev »

thebruce87m wrote: post #21
avgDev wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one of the issues for me. Plus, the only viable EV now for me is Tesla, but they keep making silly decisions and are just an odd automaker. By silly decisions I mean things like removal of turn signal stalk, removal of parking sensors, lack of a gauge in field of view(y, 3), etc. I love ability to buy online. I hate the lack of an online parts catalog where I can purchase OEM parts. This is a big issue for me…

The batteries have an 8 year warranty, by which point it will be cheaper to replace them. You probably won’t have to since NMC batteries will last 1,000 cycles x 200 miles = 200,000 miles. LFP batteries will be 3x that. Edit: not sure why this is attracting downvotes Here is proof of the 8 year warranty: > 8 years or 100,000 miles ( Note: I chose to quote the lowest mileage to avoid controversy ) https://www.tesla.co…

What makes you think it will be cheaper to replace them? Tesla recently increased prices on batteries.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#26

Post by FullyFunctional »

Seems like a hit piece. The same old BS FUD as always. The EV sales are slower than expected and can be explained by only one simple fact: cost. However, battery prices (the dominant cost) has been falling steadily and will keep falling. We'll get there eventually, albeit not as fast as we wanted.

PS: I've been driving exclusively electric since 2012 and haven't owned an ICE since 2016.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#27

Post by FullyFunctional »

thebruce87m wrote: post #21
avgDev wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is one of the issues for me. Plus, the only viable EV now for me is Tesla, but they keep making silly decisions and are just an odd automaker. By silly decisions I mean things like removal of turn signal stalk, removal of parking sensors, lack of a gauge in field of view(y, 3), etc. I love ability to buy online. I hate the lack of an online parts catalog where I can purchase OEM parts. This is a big issue for me…

The batteries have an 8 year warranty, by which point it will be cheaper to replace them. You probably won’t have to since NMC batteries will last 1,000 cycles x 200 miles = 200,000 miles. LFP batteries will be 3x that. Edit: not sure why this is attracting downvotes Here is proof of the 8 year warranty: > 8 years or 100,000 miles ( Note: I chose to quote the lowest mileage to avoid controversy ) https://www.tesla.co…

My 2014 Model S battery has lost less than 10% of the original range. Why would I replace the battery?

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#28

Post by ZeroGravitas »

> Sure, sales of EVs keep going up — a record 300,000 cars sold in the US in the third quarter of 2023 were electric — but the pace of adoption has markedly slowed, and analysts have suggested the country is no longer on track to hit the government's sales targets.

The link they give to "no longer on track" is to a British site talking about British government targets, and nowhere does it suggest that they previously were on target but now aren't. That's almost an LLM hallucination level of bullshit.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#29

Post by FullyFunctional »

thehappypm wrote: post #12
malfist wrote: post #2

Such a garbage article. What happened to EVs is what happened to all new car sales. Reminds me of the time a couple decades back when a bunch of power plants went offline in Florida, and the only news article about it was about how a nuclear power plant stopped.

I think it makes a really good point. I drive an EV, and agree with two main points: 1: It was more expensive than an equivalent gas car 2: Range anxiety is real I might have bought a $20,000 car with 100 miles of range, used it for almost all of my driving except long trips, and been happier having saved $25,000

1. Yes, the only relevant point 2. is only an issue for people who don't actually own an EV. With Tesla's charging network (which is getting adopted by _nearly_ all EV manufacturers), _nearly_ everyone will have no range issue at all. The exception is rural America and pockets of poor coverage, but that is a minority.

Re: Fewer people are buying electric cars in the US

#30

Post by Ekaros »

TexanFeller wrote: post #15

I want an EV to be more reliable and save me more money in the long run. EVs start out ~10k more than the Corolla most people should buying. They then compromise the long term reliability and maintenance cost with high tech gee whiz features. I’d sooner have manual roll up windows than touch screen controlled air vents. When you integrate sensors and software controls into every little thing, we know those things wil…

Or I could get Kia with 7 year 150 Mm warranty. For even cheaper than the Toyota... Not ofc, covering everything, but enough...

That is lot to save on fuel and maintenance... Which I would estimate to be around 500 a year for maintenance...

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