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Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

justinvincent.com

71–80 of 166 posts

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#71

Worth mentioning is Yelp's long (alleged) history of using review filtering as a de facto racket to 'encourage' businesses to sign up for their paid services. A company I used to freelance for found that after they stopped paying Yelp for a premium account, they started seeing more negative reviews and a number of their positive reviews were filtered out. They got almost daily phone calls from Yelp marketing types es…

This happened to a driving instructor I know just 2 weeks ago. He had a 4 star average rating on Yelp, receives a call from Yelp sales pitching some kind of a premium service. He declined. Within a week most of his positive reviews were suddenly filtered out dramatically reducing his score.

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#72
post #22

1995 Q: How can you verify the quality of a ? A: Ask your . 2009 Q: Same question. A: Don't need no stinkin' people. We have the internets! 2012 Q: Internet solution doesn't work. How do we fix it? A: Use the 1995 solution.

Fixed the last one for you ...

Q: Internet solution doesn't work. How do we fix it? A: Use the 1995 solution but because it's not 1995 anymore you'll use Facebook and Twitter to ask your friends which is still using "the Internet".

But that kind of blows up your point/argument.

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#73
post #68
post #22

1995 Q: How can you verify the quality of a ? A: Ask your . 2009 Q: Same question. A: Don't need no stinkin' people. We have the internets! 2012 Q: Internet solution doesn't work. How do we fix it? A: Use the 1995 solution.

Maybe a shamless plug, but I work on mobile apps at Fodor's Travel. We've been doing print travel guides for 75 years. We now have apps, in addition to books. We're professional curators. That means every restaurant review (and shops, hotels, etc) has been written by an actual human professional who's opinion we hope you trust (we're a little more upscale than Lonely Planet, but we have our hip moments). So in a way,…

Places have good days and bad days (or even hours). Your reviewers could get made. While the reviews may be spot on, they are a one point in time random sample.

The other problem is that not everyone is the same. For example I absolutely hate "attentive" staff in a restaurant (let me eat in peace and if I want something I'll ask for it), but want the check as quickly as possible on finishing while others like to slowly wind down. A regular reviewer probably won't mention either of these because that is normal to them.

The existence of multiple reviewers means one will be more like me and would mention these issues which would make me go somewhere else while others who enjoy that kind of experience would be more likely to come. This doesn't make anyone right or wrong, but does show how different reviewers help and why the lowest review scores have the most informative reviews.

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#74
post #22

1995 Q: How can you verify the quality of a ? A: Ask your . 2009 Q: Same question. A: Don't need no stinkin' people. We have the internets! 2012 Q: Internet solution doesn't work. How do we fix it? A: Use the 1995 solution.

Fixed the last one for you ... Q: Internet solution doesn't work. How do we fix it? A: Use the 1995 solution but because it's not 1995 anymore you'll use Facebook and Twitter to ask your friends which is still using "the Internet". But that kind of blows up your point/argument.

That's nitpicking. The internet might make it more efficient to ask your friends, but it's not a paradigm shift from what came before. Yelp was.

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#75

Worth mentioning is Yelp's long (alleged) history of using review filtering as a de facto racket to 'encourage' businesses to sign up for their paid services. A company I used to freelance for found that after they stopped paying Yelp for a premium account, they started seeing more negative reviews and a number of their positive reviews were filtered out. They got almost daily phone calls from Yelp marketing types es…

It's not worth mentioning. Almost every case has been a coincidence and they've gone out of their way to explain the review filter (which functions similarly to Google's PageRank algorithm and attempts to filter out spammy reviews using various factors).

Each court case related to this has been thrown out.

If you trust Google to be fair with PageRank then there hasn't been any evidence that should make you more concerned about Yelp.

Business owners complain about getting demoted in Google's PageRank algorithm quite a bit, too.

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#76

Worth mentioning is Yelp's long (alleged) history of using review filtering as a de facto racket to 'encourage' businesses to sign up for their paid services. A company I used to freelance for found that after they stopped paying Yelp for a premium account, they started seeing more negative reviews and a number of their positive reviews were filtered out. They got almost daily phone calls from Yelp marketing types es…

This is supposedly happening all the time, yet no one has managed to catch it on tape for some reason. I can't think of a credible explanation for the lack of hard evidence (and lawsuits).

In many parts of the US it's illegal to record phone calls without the knowledge of both parties. That can't help.

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#77
post #51

Is there a startup opportunity for an identity verification service whereby you do the ID verification once and then each service that wants to use it gets charged a smaller amount? Example: consumer goes to idverificationsite.com, registers there for free- they ask out of wallet questions to verify identity, potentially do a minimal background check too. You then use this login with Yelp, AirBnB, Getaround, etc. Yel…

There was an interesting article in Inc. magazine a while back about a company that tried that. They found out that no sites wanted to use the service, even though they saw how it might solve their problems, because it would immediately make their non-verified users less valuable.

http://www.inc.com/magazine/201112/case-study-josh-levy-and-...

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#78
Personally I just Yelp would have some sort of collaborative filtering engine. They kind of have a social one, but my friends' opinions are often as bad as a random stranger's.

What people review on Yelp is subjective and Yelp makes it hard to filter out people's biases because of their one dimensional rating system. When people review a restaurant, they review the service, the food, the atmosphere and the overall value. For some people, paying $200 on a meal is outrageous regardless of how epic the food might be. For others, they don't even look at the check when they pay and value doesn't factor into their ratings.

Yelp doesn't ask you to rank the businesses you like on a scale of best to worst, so people rate things based on some internal weighting scale that probably shifts slightly from review to review. I may have a 5-star taco trunk right next to a 5-star review for the French Laundry. They aren't equal.

What people review is also temporal. God help a business if there is say, some construction going on across the street, the patron was in a bad mood and becomes argumentative or the chef is sick and food quality dips for a night. Or maybe the waiter just broke up with his girlfriend. Maybe they run out of the one thing the patron really wants to eat. Any of these things can make someone walk away and feel the business is poor.

Businesses and people also change over time, I have reviews on Yelp for 5 stars from 5 years ago for places that have either gone downhill or simply don't match my current taste.

People also tend to only review things they either really liked/loved or hated which results in most businesses (especially in SF) as being rated 3.5-4 stars making Yelp pretty useless without looking at the underlying reviews.

A collaborative filtering engine could fix a lot of these problems. At the very least I'll match people who have my own biases and normalize people's ratings. Of course it still doesn't fix the temporal issues, but I don't think that's insurmountable.

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#79

Worth mentioning is Yelp's long (alleged) history of using review filtering as a de facto racket to 'encourage' businesses to sign up for their paid services. A company I used to freelance for found that after they stopped paying Yelp for a premium account, they started seeing more negative reviews and a number of their positive reviews were filtered out. They got almost daily phone calls from Yelp marketing types es…

It's not worth mentioning. Almost every case has been a coincidence and they've gone out of their way to explain the review filter (which functions similarly to Google's PageRank algorithm and attempts to filter out spammy reviews using various factors). Each court case related to this has been thrown out. If you trust Google to be fair with PageRank then there hasn't been any evidence that should make you more conce…

I don't recall ever hearing people receiving calls from Google salespeople who imply that a failure to buy advertising on Google may result in a reduction in PageRank, or that purchasing advertising may restore it.

Re: Yelp, You Cost Me $2000 by Suppressing Genuine Reviews. Here’s How You Fix It

#80
post #51

Is there a startup opportunity for an identity verification service whereby you do the ID verification once and then each service that wants to use it gets charged a smaller amount? Example: consumer goes to idverificationsite.com, registers there for free- they ask out of wallet questions to verify identity, potentially do a minimal background check too. You then use this login with Yelp, AirBnB, Getaround, etc. Yel…

There are at least two startup opportunities for something like this. One is the creation of the credential/verified identity certification and the second is the transmission/exchange of the credential. These are two very disparate set of competencies.

Several years ago, I was working with Honesty Online, doing exactly this identity verification startup prop and where it became very evident that this is really two businesses. Now we, in another startup, sigkat.com, are very early stage in the second business - creation/exchange/transmission of any sort of credentials so that vertical apps like identity verification can focus on their domain.

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