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RawJS is a better way to call document.createElement()

squaresapp.org

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Re: RawJS is a better way to call document.createElement()

#61
post #15

There's a typographical error on the home page ("It's API design is complete and there are no known bugs" should use "Its"). I would've submitted a PR, but the link to the website repository actually links to a static site generator, not the website itself.

Two more I noticed:

“last years framework” should be “last year’s framework”

“How long with it take to find and fix bugs as our app grows?” should be “How long will it take to find and fix bugs as our app grows?”

Re: RawJS is a better way to call document.createElement()

#62

https://medium.com/@arannadelwar361/embracing-the-power-of-r... https://dev.to/paulgordon/after-using-rawjs-im-never-touchin... Both links helped to explain, the landing page is indeed not very good.

lol geez the React devs in the comments of that dev.to post are out for blood

Totally unfair: I’m a Vue dev and I’m out for blood too (did not comment on the article though)

Re: RawJS is a better way to call document.createElement()

#63
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, their "Check out Squares" link takes me to https://github.com/squaresapp/rawjs-sample The live sample of that is not very impressive. And even worse: > These are the limitations you need to accept with this project structure: > You have to be disciplined to only use dependencies that are published on jsdelivr (npm install programmers need to clean up their act) That with a package.json which has dependenc…

my reading on the "limitations you need to accept with this project structure" is that those limitations are about this particular project structure, not on rawjs itself; i.e. my understanding was that you can also write a project using rawjs using normal ES modules and plain JS (as mentioned briefly in the main rawjs github repo readme). that said, I do agree that pointing to a highly opinionated example project is…

My point is that, this being written by the authors of Rawjs, who unironically proselytize that "npm install programmers need to clean up their act" while providing a project which would require you to `npm install` dependencies is telling.

Re: RawJS is a better way to call document.createElement()

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The demo is here. https://rawjssample.pages.dev/ I immediately see that it ~hijacks my back button~ fills my back-stack such that I can't use the back button normally. Doesn't look promising.

Anything that is supposed to replace web UI frameworks needs to be able to perform client side routing. You can argue that the different colors shouldn't represent a push to history, but that's a criticism of the implementation, not the library.

Anything that's like a combination of react and a static site generator? Where it has the ability to build a static site but also includes reactivity

Re: RawJS is a better way to call document.createElement()

#66

Apparently the author has it out for import statements. "No import dumpster at the top of each file. Forget imports even existed. Just access whatever you want, wherever you want. TypeScript knows where to find it." This is a bizarre preference. Is there some reason the JS community has turned against explicitly listing what libraries are used by a module?

I definitely would not say the authors’ opinions are representative of the JS community.

This is the third or fourth time I see today in HN of someone treating someone's personal project or opinion as "the direction the community is moving".

If every new toy framework is treated like this, it's no wonder people feel overwhelmed by frontend development.

Re: RawJS is a better way to call document.createElement()

#69

Another 2kb “JavaScript got better” library is https://www.arrow-js.com/

That's pretty great! For me, the great tragedy of "modern" programming is that we took the enormous potential of scripting languages and turned them back into C++. Whereas I started with C++ and have done everything I can to get away from it.

For example, everything today is built on promise chains, which are borrowed from monads in functional programming, which someone came up with (partially) to let immutable synchronous blocking code be written in mutable imperative style. But where FP tries to avoid monads and stay pure, promises are now considered so fundamental that we have async/await on nearly every function. Delivering such a degree of nondeterminism that we've effectively resurrected goto.

If I ever design a language, all variables will already be proxies so that everything can be observed. Just like it will use pass-by-value instead of references, the same way that php copies arrays via copy-on-write internally. And have channels between fork/join green threads with full memory isolation provided by the runtime, to provide a declarative style of multithreading that looks like vanilla higher-order functions. There are at least a dozen alternative approaches like that which reduce code complexity by orders of magnitude, that never got widely adopted in recent decades. So we're all manually managing exceptional behavior rather that avoiding it in the first place.

ArrowJS shows how simple programming could be if we catered to developers instead of some abstract notion of lightweight purity that results in GHz computers struggling to run unmaintainable GUIs that ran fine with less code on 33 MHz computers in the 1980s. ArrowJS FP/spreadsheet, "modern" JS C++/assembly language.

Re: RawJS is a better way to call document.createElement()

#70
Whenever I see projects like this, I'm convinced the authors have never worked on actual large-scale frontend projects and teams, especially not for a meaningful amount of time. It's telling when people say "React has gotten too complex."

This might be good for "Squares", but I am not looking forward to having to explain to the new bootcamp grad why this would ruin any sort projects of size.

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