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Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

reuters.com

31–40 of 149 posts

Re: Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

#31
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America's respect for free market principles here doesn't amuse you too?

This site is American and thus patriotism plays a heavy role in the bias of comments. Usually, China is by default viewed in a negative light. It blinds people to the obvious fact that the US is heavily using anti free market tactics to end globalism while China is not acting as the aggressor here.

America loves competition as long as it's winning.

Re: Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

#32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a more market orientated economy than most people would expect. There are large SOEs (state owned enterprises) sure but ultimately the whole point of "communism with Chinese characteristics" is to leverage market forces for efficiency where that makes sense. China generally speaking is very free from a business/trade perspective, the exceptions to that are mostly related to finance or national security sensi…

> the exceptions to that are mostly related to finance or national security sensitive industries. Yes, those things are off limits. Now, how do you define what's finance or national security? Whatever they need to control (the US does this too). All of these "China is a free market" comments are funny; their capital markets are closed, you can't freely move money in and out without government permission.

[deleted]

Re: Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

#34
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a more market orientated economy than most people would expect. There are large SOEs (state owned enterprises) sure but ultimately the whole point of "communism with Chinese characteristics" is to leverage market forces for efficiency where that makes sense. China generally speaking is very free from a business/trade perspective, the exceptions to that are mostly related to finance or national security sensi…

> the exceptions to that are mostly related to finance or national security sensitive industries. Yes, those things are off limits. Now, how do you define what's finance or national security? Whatever they need to control (the US does this too). All of these "China is a free market" comments are funny; their capital markets are closed, you can't freely move money in and out without government permission.

So exactly the same as in the US? For instance the Russians got their assets frozen by a whim of the US government

Re: Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

#35
post #2

I wonder if these actions will have the opposite effect. China will only more invest into producing their own. And I think we should not underestimate them. Could be good for competition though.

It is just a delaying tactic. ASML is 5-10 years ahead in their technology so it will take a while for China to catch up. Which will grant the USA some extra time to build its own chip industry and not be dependent on two or three other countries.

Re: Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

#36
post #2

I wonder if these actions will have the opposite effect. China will only more invest into producing their own. And I think we should not underestimate them. Could be good for competition though.

While I'd say so, I don't think in the medium future it would have made much difference. China wants ensure control over strategic elements anyway. I suspect that the west has started betting on China intending to primarily rely on domestic production. Possibly to preempt the future, avoid companies getting entangled further, and slow China down even if just marginally, the west has settled this policy. I say west bu…

No need to bet on the intent. At least for software in financial services, starting from 2027 all Chinese companies are supposed to use 100% homegrown software. Any use of foreign-supplied software must be explicitly approved by the respective government body.

The mandated fraction of Chinese software vs. other software is already supposed to be >65%, and the floor is being raised every year.

Re: Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

#38
post #2

I wonder if these actions will have the opposite effect. China will only more invest into producing their own. And I think we should not underestimate them. Could be good for competition though.

It is just a delaying tactic. ASML is 5-10 years ahead in their technology so it will take a while for China to catch up. Which will grant the USA some extra time to build its own chip industry and not be dependent on two or three other countries.

China doesn’t need to replicate EUV in order to make competitive chips. China can already produce very advanced chips today and is maybe 2 years behind in the ways that actually matter.

Re: Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the exceptions to that are mostly related to finance or national security sensitive industries. Yes, those things are off limits. Now, how do you define what's finance or national security? Whatever they need to control (the US does this too). All of these "China is a free market" comments are funny; their capital markets are closed, you can't freely move money in and out without government permission.

So exactly the same as in the US? For instance the Russians got their assets frozen by a whim of the US government

Russians got their assets frozen because they are aggressive genocidal invaders.

Re: Beijing criticises Netherlands’ move to block ASML exports to China

#40

> Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin on Tuesday urged the Netherlands "to be impartial, respect market principles and the law, take practical actions to protect the common interests of both countries and their companies and maintain the stability of international supply chains". This amuses me greatly. I had no idea China is explicitly pro-market capitalism.

China has been explicitly pro-market for the last 40+ years (see: Deng's reforms)

It has been ambiguously pro market, not explicitly. They still have lots of protections in their economy, it isn’t a place where pure capitalism and free trade are the dominant ideologies.
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