Earlier quoted context omitted.
A person in the back who appears to be a crew is standing with her seatbelt unbuckled, so the aircraft is probably stopped. The behavior of the passengers also indicates that it was after landing.
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JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
431–440 of 515 posts
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#432Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> I would probably try to take that with me, as I would hate to survive the crash but then have a fatal medical event in the aftermath and not have the tools. But you might just die in the fire yourself, prioritizing a hypothetical emergency over a real one. There would also be plenty of medical personnel present once you get off the plane, they probably won't let you leave the scene without talking to one.
> But you might just die in the fire yourself, prioritizing a hypothetical emergency over a real one The Two Failure Fallacy is a fatal flaw of human reasoning. It's almost never correct to engineer anything on the assumption of two bad things happening simultaneously. You do your analysis based on individual/uncorrelated failure modes. And only then do you make design choices (c.f. "defense in depth", "redundancy",…
If you're in the market for a real HN style reply, actually, almost every aviation disaster involves two or more things happening the wrong way simultaneously. Usually more than five.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#433This is why you always keep your shoes on when the airplane is on or near the ground. It can save your life.
Why do you need shoes to exit a plane?
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#434Definitely better links than Daily Mirror out there, avherald.com unfortunately overwhelmed, but in terms of discussion: - Crazy how well the carbon fiber A350 held up given that it seems to have landed pretty much directly on a Dash 8 (RIP Coast Guard team). Looks like trading long term flammability for initial rigidity lived up to the design intent. - Excellent evacuation job, especially as it looks like on some vi…
> Excellent evacuation job This couldn't be further from the truth. From what I've read, this was handled terribly. There was confusion and no evacuation was ordered by the crew over the PA. The passengers managed it themselves. If it were a crew-directed evacuation they would have blocked the door leading to the still-running engine as you pointed out. It took the firefighters over six minutes to respond to the site…
I heard that the engine 2 was still running during the evacuation and that the front door on the right was used for evacuation, that sounds really scary and I'm very glad no one was sucked into the engine.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#435The big take0away here is that the 90 second rule that Airbus fought and lost with the A380 and Boeing thought about fighting with the 787 and 777 is exactly right. Sometimes every second matters. A second take-away - emergencies are no excuse to ditch procedure and thinking about Safety. The SFO incident where a passenger was killed after exiting a vehicle by a vehicle rushing to the plane is another example.
did airbus try to fight against the 90 second rule? What changes did they make to eventually do a successful evacuation with an 800 person cabin configuration?
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#436Not sure about Japanese/ICAO rules but line up and wait, especially after sunset has very specific criteria attached to it. 1) runway is used for departure only and 2) safety logic gear is working. These rules were put in place in the U.S. in 1991/92 after a sever accident in Los Angeles where a 737 landed on top of a Sweringer Metro liner.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#437There's a PPRUNE thread with the usual mix of comments at https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/656665-jal-inci... Comments get more informative (and informed?) down the thread.
Hmm. That is interesting. It seemed like the hose was really heavy and he was all alone. I wonder why.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#438Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#439A much more informative video is https://youtu.be/6NbVdIoJsHY?t=169 ... you can see the accident aircraft enter the runway then stands there for 40+ seconds before the other aircraft lands on it. It seems like a lot of time during which controllers could have detected the conflict.
is this video from a plane spotter?
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#440Admiral Cloudberg has their work cut out for them again... I always love their insights (not sure if it's a man or a woman) It's not really a miracle though. Just the system working as intended, and the many lessons learned from the lives that were lost in the past paying off. As an example: due to this accident with many fatalities, the process for fire on the runway has been improved considerably. In that case the…
It'll be a long while before the Admiral does, she prefers to work on reports from the investigations.