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Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

latimes.com

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Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#11

Post by chasil »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #10
chasil wrote: post #9

Why don't we do with (problem) snakes what we do with the mosquito, specifically releasing either a) irradiated males who are sterile that produce offspring that do not hatch, or b) males with an installed gene drive that can only sire males for all future generations? Either case results in a population crash. I don't know if gene drives have been used against wild populations as yet (although there is great interes…

Aside from being carriers of disease, mosquitoes have been identified as fulfilling an insignificant biological niche. My knee jerk suspicion is that snakes are more important to an ecosystem.

From a human vulnerability perspective, there is minimal human threat in North America's poisonous snakes, compared to the areas of India, China, Australia, and other nations in this area. Driving down the population for reasons of human risk seems reasonable there, by reversible means.

With Florida's problem of invasive snakes, extreme removal efforts seem likewise warranted as non-native species should be completely removed from the local environment, especially considering their profound negative impact on biodiversity.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#12

Post by throwup238 »

chasil wrote: post #9

Why don't we do with (problem) snakes what we do with the mosquito, specifically releasing either a) irradiated males who are sterile that produce offspring that do not hatch, or b) males with an installed gene drive that can only sire males for all future generations? Either case results in a population crash. I don't know if gene drives have been used against wild populations as yet (although there is great interes…

Mosquitos inhabit an ecological niche that is much safer to eradicate than snakes. Mosquitos' predators have many other sources of food so they're not critical to any species and they're not predators that keep prey populations in check. They're just a deadly nuisance to humans without access to plentiful modern medicine.

Snakes on the other hand as mid-level predators are likely keystone species [1] and killing them would wreck their ecosystems by letting rodent populations grow out of control. In California they keep ground squirrel populations in check and provide a source of food for all kinds of raptors.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_species

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#13

Post by bluGill »

rurp wrote: post #2

It's unclear to me how much damage the pill prevents versus simply delaying it. I didn't see any clear statements on that in the article and there are a few quotes like, "intended to at least buy victims enough time to get to the hospital." If victims still need anti-venom to prevent serious injury then the drug is much less exciting. As the article points out anti-venom treatments are expensive, unreliable, and hard…

This seems to be about India, so I don't know how my local conditions apply to this pill.

For rattlesnake bites the anti-venom has a 3 month shelf life and is expensive. Such snakebites are very rare (at least the local rattlesnake where I live). As such even though most rural areas have more rattlesnakes than humans, the local hospitals don't have anti-venom: most of the time it would expire unused. So if this pill has a better shelf life and gives time to air lift to the nearest large city (which may cover more than one state and likely has other ICU care that small rural hospitals can't provide) it is well worth having around even if it is just a stop gap.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#14

Post by wbillingsley »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #10
chasil wrote: post #9

Why don't we do with (problem) snakes what we do with the mosquito, specifically releasing either a) irradiated males who are sterile that produce offspring that do not hatch, or b) males with an installed gene drive that can only sire males for all future generations? Either case results in a population crash. I don't know if gene drives have been used against wild populations as yet (although there is great interes…

Aside from being carriers of disease, mosquitoes have been identified as fulfilling an insignificant biological niche. My knee jerk suspicion is that snakes are more important to an ecosystem.

It depends. e.g. In Australia, the snake most people worry about (the eastern brown - world's second most venomous and common in cities) is native, so yes it's important to an ecosystem in the broader sense. But its numbers around cities have gone up because of mice, most of which are introduced, so it's a non-native part of the ecosystem that's pushing the numbers up. Doing something to bring the numbers back down around urban centres wouldn't seem like such a bad idea. Brown snakes aren't a threatened or endangered species and though cities are large human centres, they're not a large portion of the Australian geography. (And are largely artificially maintained ecosystems anyway - those houses and roads didn't appear naturally.) There are probably other ways for dealing with mice than having the world's second deadliest snake hanging around town.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#15

Post by dabiged »

> he was administered 28 vials of antivenom intravenously at a cost of $3,400 per vial.

As someone who lives in Australia, who grew up with aggressive and deadly snakes, what the actual hell? Nobody is out of pocket in Australia following a snake bite and we have many more species and all of the geographic remoteness of the South Western US. Is this just another case of a side effect of the state of the USA healthcare system?

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#16

Post by FL410 »

dabiged wrote: post #15

> he was administered 28 vials of antivenom intravenously at a cost of $3,400 per vial. As someone who lives in Australia, who grew up with aggressive and deadly snakes, what the actual hell? Nobody is out of pocket in Australia following a snake bite and we have many more species and all of the geographic remoteness of the South Western US. Is this just another case of a side effect of the state of the USA healthcar…

As embarrassing as that sentence is, it is highly unlikely he left with a $95,000 bill, nor is it likely his insurance company actually paid anywhere near that for the vials. The prices that end up on healthcare bills may as well be in another currency, since they tend to be used as placeholders subject to all kinds of contractual math down the road.

None of which is to say that our healthcare system ISN'T a mess, it is.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#18

Post by lupusreal »

chasil wrote: post #9

Why don't we do with (problem) snakes what we do with the mosquito, specifically releasing either a) irradiated males who are sterile that produce offspring that do not hatch, or b) males with an installed gene drive that can only sire males for all future generations? Either case results in a population crash. I don't know if gene drives have been used against wild populations as yet (although there is great interes…

99 times out of 100, snakes leave you alone if you leave them alone. Most snake bites occur on the hands or face because they happen when people are messing with them. It's extremely unethical to kill snakes. If you have a venomous snake somewhere on your property that you cannot tolerate it, you should call an expert to come move it for you.

Re: Can a pill prevent deaths from venomous snakebites?

#20

Post by ThinkBeat »

I was told in the military that snakes cant bite through a regular army boots. Thankfully, I have never had it proven to me. The snake can bite above the boot, or on other parts of the body so I am not saying it provies that much protection.

I used to do a bit of hiking in Colorado. Using advanced open sandals. I can't remember the manufacturer. I was inches from stepping on a rattlesnake on one hike.

I got out my army boots for every hike after that.

(Far less comfortable)

I hope it is true.

Mind you, I am old now. I believe the army uses boots that are generations newer than mine. (They still sell the classics) I dont know if the new ones are better or worse when it comes ot the possibility of avoiding a snake bite.

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