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Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

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Re: Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

#131

Post by surfingdino »

some-human wrote: post #42
helboi4 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bro you've clearly never ridden the tube. Homeless people are on it all the time begging. They slip in behind other people through the barriers at busy or unmanned stations.

Londoner for 24 years. I don't know what to tell you, 'Bro'. Yes beggars walk down tube trains trying to get money, but they don't tend to set up shop on the platform which is what we're talking about here. I'm also pretty sure most of the people that have asked me for a quid on the tube were not homeless people, just chancers and drug users. Besides which, once you were past the barrier, sleeping on the tube train i…

Not the DLR stations though. Those are unmanned.

Re: Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

#133

Post by earthboundkid »

kjellsbells wrote: post #121
jauntywundrkind wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally agreed. In DC we had a similar change over. My complaint is just that it is incredibly tacky. It's much brighter than ambient lighting is. Our metro system is facing a huge budget crunch (the Feds stopping COVID money, and the 2.5 states involved have been very unhelpful at providing funding). I get that advertising is an appealing revenue stream. I just wish we could do it in a way that wasn't so rambuncti…

Metro is a balm compared to the PenFed illuminated tunnel at Washington Dulles airport. For non locals, this is in a long walkway between access train and terminal, is lit in bright blue moving images, and plays a silly song about interest rates at high volume for the entirety of your time in the tunnel. It has cemented my desire to never do business with PenFed, for sure.

My favorite thing about the DC metro are the micro-targeted ads. Obviously, there's all the defense contractor junk at Pentagon City, but I also remember one at Foggy Bottom that was like "so-and-so is on the payroll of ISIS and the State Department should BAN them."

Re: Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

#134

Post by panick21_ »

Wytwwww wrote: post #40
lhnz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very difficult to make thousands of up-front planning decisions perfectly. It'd be even more costly to try to perfect every aspect upfront within the planning stage and it'd be more reasonable to make best attempts but to provide for the ability (and budget) to retrofit bespoke alterations to fix problems that arise at a later date.

> difficult to make thousands of up-front planning decisions perfectly. So don't. Just use something well tried and tested and don't try to be innovative (in areas we you can't dedicated significant amounts of resources for up-front planning)

Or you know, be innovative learn what works and what doesn't. With each project improving the state of the art forward.

The real cost of these project is the big tunneling, the trains and so on.

Going for something innovative makes sense, because it can be easily changed later if it really fails (and that has yet to proven).

Re: Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

#135

Post by panick21_ »

bluGill wrote: post #112
concordDance wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems a bit defeatist. Some hope for and striving for improvement is good for a society.

There is improve and there is trying something new. Rails have been around for nearly two centuries - they are a solve problem. We don't need to innovate on many parts as there is nothing wrong with the old technology with some minor updated. We already know what works well for a standard train system. Innovation generally tries things that look good to politicians who don't understand trains, but in reality people w…

Rails in particular have improved quite a bit. Modern newest generation slab designs requiring very, very little maintenance and are fast to install.

> Innovation generally tries things that look good to politicians who don't understand trains, but in reality people who understood trains 100 years ago had the idea and rejected it as a bad idea - and the reasons they are bad ideas didn't change!

I'm all for respecting old ideas but this idea that modern engineers are idiots and can't think of anything people 100 years didn't think of is also wrong.

> Make sure when you look at standards above you look at what others have done. If you have an idea odds are someone else has already tried it: find them and figure out how it works - sometimes you can tweak to be better sometimes you realize it is a bad idea.

I don't disagree.

In the context of Crossrail, this seems to be what they have done for the most part. So I don't understand the criticism.

Re: Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

#136

Post by panick21_ »

surfingdino wrote: post #82

These are Eduardo Paolozzi’s ghosts taking their revenge for the destruction of the beautiful mosaic at old Tottenham Court Road Station, obviously. Seriously, though the Lizzie Line is an example of really grand design but poorly executed. Here are some of my observations: a. The quality of material is poor and hinders easy maintenance. b. The high-res information displays show train arrivals in incorrect order, e.g…

Cruel cruel world, how has such evil been allowed to flourish, information in the wrong order, how will London recover.

> I stopped caring about saving the planet when I saw what the TfL did.

Ok, dude, you are high on your own drama.

Re: Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

#137

Post by bluGill »

panick21_ wrote: post #135
bluGill wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is improve and there is trying something new. Rails have been around for nearly two centuries - they are a solve problem. We don't need to innovate on many parts as there is nothing wrong with the old technology with some minor updated. We already know what works well for a standard train system. Innovation generally tries things that look good to politicians who don't understand trains, but in reality people w…

Rails in particular have improved quite a bit. Modern newest generation slab designs requiring very, very little maintenance and are fast to install. > Innovation generally tries things that look good to politicians who don't understand trains, but in reality people who understood trains 100 years ago had the idea and rejected it as a bad idea - and the reasons they are bad ideas didn't change! I'm all for respecting…

> is idea that modern engineers are idiots and can't think of anything people 100 years

That is not what I was trying to say. I'm saying that politicians and managers are unable to think of things that people 100 years didn't think of. While that isn't 100% true, it is very close.

Though most of the time engineers today couldn't think of anything they didn't think of 100 years ago. However sometimes advances in other science means ideas that wouldn't work back then could work today. This is almost entirely incremental improvements though.

Crossrail didn't follow the same practices as building 100 years ago. And the results are terrible. (of course some of this is good - better safety standards - but the whole is a system that costs far more than expected for lower quality than possible elsewhere using modern standards)

Re: Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

#138

Post by isaacremuant »

They should test a signaling system that allows for them to not cancel so many trains, so often.

It's shockingly bad in terms of reliability for such an expensive form of transport.

It's become "apology line". It should apologize with full day discounts, see how that incentivizes them to improve their service.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-66754481.amp

Re: Elizabeth line testing ways of banishing its "ghosts in the walls"

#140

Post by Symbiote »

rmbyrro wrote: post #123
surfingdino wrote: post #82

These are Eduardo Paolozzi’s ghosts taking their revenge for the destruction of the beautiful mosaic at old Tottenham Court Road Station, obviously. Seriously, though the Lizzie Line is an example of really grand design but poorly executed. Here are some of my observations: a. The quality of material is poor and hinders easy maintenance. b. The high-res information displays show train arrivals in incorrect order, e.g…

Imagine that, in the past, the tube was steam engine powered. If there are peoples who can handle heat deep there, they're the English. But, yeah, it's stupidity.

Only for of the current lines, those using larger trains and shallower tunnels.

The "tube" (with the circular tubelike tunnels) used electric from the start.

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