Kind of a morbid curiosity, but would a Dash-8 taxiing for takeoff have more or less fuel in total than an A350 coming in for landing?
JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
251–260 of 515 posts
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
Human to human open discussion is superior to computer to computer in the business of flying/navigation. It might make sense at some point in the future where an autopilot system knows how to taxi, take off, troubleshoot issues by itself during the critical phases of flight and so on. And like others said, aviation is one of the safest industries on the planet.
> Human to human open discussion is superior to computer to computer in the business of flying/navigation. What makes you think so?
Because computers don’t have instincts. And don’t get nuances of communication or instructions.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#253A much more informative video is https://youtu.be/6NbVdIoJsHY?t=169 ... you can see the accident aircraft enter the runway then stands there for 40+ seconds before the other aircraft lands on it. It seems like a lot of time during which controllers could have detected the conflict.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
You say all this, yet waymo is demonstrably safer than the average driver. Uphill in snow maybe you’ll have to take the wheel, I’ll give you that.
Waymo hasn't tried driving outside its comfort zone, so I'll argue that it's not demonstrated.
Have you driven in SF?
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#255Definitely better links than Daily Mirror out there, avherald.com unfortunately overwhelmed, but in terms of discussion: - Crazy how well the carbon fiber A350 held up given that it seems to have landed pretty much directly on a Dash 8 (RIP Coast Guard team). Looks like trading long term flammability for initial rigidity lived up to the design intent. - Excellent evacuation job, especially as it looks like on some vi…
Re clearance/cause: VASA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fItu5qM7QfE also couldn't make it out, but it sounds like the Coast Guard Dash 8 got a not really perfect taxi instruction (neither "hold short" nor "line up and wait") to one of the other C* intersections leading onto 34R while a Delta flight occupied C1, but entered the runway anyway. The A350 got a proper clearance it read back correctly. Also looks like all…
Whether it was perfect or not, there are only a few words/phrases that allow an aircraft to cross the hold short bars at an airport with an active control tower. "Cross", "line up and wait", and "cleared for takeoff" are pretty much it. Runway incursions are very dangerous, as this incident shows, and pilots must be very sure they have clearance before entering a runway. If anything is ambiguous in an instruction, pilots are trained to ask ATC for confirmation before proceeding.
It's also possible that there was more ATC communication that was not recorded. LiveATC comes from feeds provided by volunteers, whose receivers may be some distance from the airport and which may not receive signals 100% reliably. The investigators will have access to the official recordings made by JCAB (the Japanese aviation authorities).
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#256Yet another Japanese plane evacuation without people lugging backpacks & wheelies. Commendable work by the cabin crew and passengers. Contrast that with some of the Spirit/Southwest/Qantas evacuation videos we have seen. DO NOT EVACUATE WITH LUGGAGE.
> DO NOT EVACUATE WITH LUGGAGE. Simple rule IMHO: keep your ID/password and a credit card on your person during take-off / landing. (Probably your phone, in a pocket, as well.) Practically speaking as long as you can ID yourself and buy things (pay-off later), there's no property that's worth your life (or the life of other passengers).
+1
I usually do this when flying for work. Wallet, passport and phone in my pocket the whole flight. Anything else can be replaced.
If anything happened I'd hope to at least send a SMS to my wife to say "I'm safe".
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
Members of my family require medication (epipen, some various pills), and I keep that along with a flashlight (in case I need to administer in pitch black) in a small haversack. I would probably try to take that with me, as I would hate to survive the crash but then have a fatal medical event in the aftermath and not have the tools. I do feel conflicted since the no luggage mantra has been drilled in for decades.
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Why? A good chunk of humanity showed via covid that they are not interested in inconveniencing themselves for potentially reducing overall harm to others.
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#258This is why you follow cabin crew instructions and DO NOT CARRY YOUR LUGGAGE out of the aircraft in an emergency. Your luggage is not worth more than a fellow passengers life. Contrast this with evacuation footage of western passenger planes..
Members of my family require medication (epipen, some various pills), and I keep that along with a flashlight (in case I need to administer in pitch black) in a small haversack. I would probably try to take that with me, as I would hate to survive the crash but then have a fatal medical event in the aftermath and not have the tools. I do feel conflicted since the no luggage mantra has been drilled in for decades.
You need to break the rules, risk others lives, and grab your carryon in an airport in a major city for an epipen? How many hospitals, ambulances, and first aid stations are within 5k of you would you guess?
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
Airplane taxiing is manual. ATC can tell the plane to use runway A, and the plane can check that A is free, but neither will stop the pilot from accidentally steering into runway B.
There’s nothing preventing airplanes from knowing the coordinates of every runway in the world and working out the truth using GPS though.
This would elevate the impact of GPS spoofing from a minor or major [1] nuisance to a significant terrorism threat.
[1] https://ops.group/blog/new-gps-spoofing-incident-shows-how-i...
Re: JAL A359 at Tokyo collided with Coast Guard DH8C on runway and burst into flames
#260This is why you follow cabin crew instructions and DO NOT CARRY YOUR LUGGAGE out of the aircraft in an emergency. Your luggage is not worth more than a fellow passengers life. Contrast this with evacuation footage of western passenger planes..
I like to think that in a real emergency (crash landing, fire visible outside, smoke entering the cabin) survival instinct will kick in and people will just GTFO without worrying about luggage. The videos I've seen of people evacuating with luggage seem a little less serious. That said, an evacuation is always serious. People often do get hurt coming down those slides so the crew only order an evacuation if they think it outweighs the risk of staying put and waiting for help.