A Canadian payroll dependency chart • Hacker News Board

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#141

Post by jjeaff » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:39 PM UTC

orzig wrote: post #100

I'm in the US but I'll say for sure that things like this are about half the reason I haven't hired any employees for my LLC. I wish I could, but I'd be de facto hiring an accountant as well!

As far as calculating payroll and remitting payments to the proper agencies federally and in their respective states, that shouldn't be a hindrance at all. There are countless payroll service companies that will do all the calculations and remittances for $30-$50 a month per employee. You definitely don't need an accountant for regular payroll.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#142

Post by j45 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:39 PM UTC

CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #39

It’s charts like this why payroll providers exist. See the relevant _Bits About Money_ post at https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/payroll-providers-pow...

It's still math and the standardizing to ensure what payroll providers submit is correct is still checked by the government, who could provide said standard.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#143

Post by danjc » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:40 PM UTC

orzig wrote: post #100

I'm in the US but I'll say for sure that things like this are about half the reason I haven't hired any employees for my LLC. I wish I could, but I'd be de facto hiring an accountant as well!

Doesn't a PEO like ADP make this a lot easier?

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#144

Post by j45 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:41 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #69

cperciva wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be very nice if they would publish a libreoffice spreadsheet, yes. Heck, it would be very nice if they would create a libreoffice spreadsheet, even if they don't publish it. If they had to read their own document, it would probably be far better written.

> If they had to read their own document, it would probably be far better written. Perhaps not; I've always had a strong impression, whenever reading documents derived from tax policy, that the "architecture" of such documents is the way it is mainly for maintainability . Which is to say: the effective tax code at any given moment, is the emergent result of the interactions of all the current tax laws on the books. A…

I hadn't considered maintainability as something to consider in this area - appreciate the deep dive.

The saying bureaucracy can't help but beget bureaucracy is another thing that comes to mind.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#145

Post by j45 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:42 PM UTC

betaby wrote: post #45

sdwvit wrote: post #7

Props to the author. At this point, CRA should just post a reference implementation of all the formulas, so that small businesses can benefit from it.

They won't. They have no mandate to provide a clear answer.

Bureaucracies gotta bureaucracize.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#146

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:42 PM UTC

orzig wrote: post #100

I'm in the US but I'll say for sure that things like this are about half the reason I haven't hired any employees for my LLC. I wish I could, but I'd be de facto hiring an accountant as well!

Like another comment said, there are reasons payroll companies exist, and these days there are tons of services that make this easy to do, compliantly. E.g. there is a good reason like the majority of small/medium-ish sized business I know use Gusto because they make it really easy to add contractors or employees (and I'm not specifically pitching Gusto, there are a lot of competitors you can search for). While these products aren't free, the benefit of their SaaS model is that it's a per-employee cost that can grow with you.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#147

Post by yard2010 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:44 PM UTC

j45 wrote: post #134

mmastrac wrote: post #4

It's a shame that we don't have open formulas in code form published by the government. The only way that I know how to do this reliably is using the web form provided by the CRA here: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/e-services/... As you can imagine, doing this by hand is quite painful and error-prone.

It could be a github repo. There are likely some digital government projects and software providers who's software might be a good fit for this kind of thing.

Why stop there, one monorepo could hold all the laws and receive PRs from the ppl, cutting down the middle man (politicians) leaving just the bureaucracy

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#148

Post by j45 » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:44 PM UTC

sidcool wrote: post #129

How does one even begin Designing a software system for such a complex process! The impact of a bug in such system would be huge!!

It would need to be flexible, auditable, historical (each year ran it's version).

So, basically, no software devs really at the business analysis layer. The process mapping has to be the code. Decision making in the process mapping has to be editable.

It's quite doable and present with some of the current software packages that operate in the finance / insurance / banking / government / enterprise space.

Imho, how software has historically been created for business is now broken. Software used to aim for a fixed, or slowly changing operating model, and the pandemic kind of introduced a bunch of ongoing change.

Software will become more malleable as a result.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#149

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:45 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #103

mixdup wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that would be absolute chaos, especially when it comes to foundational terms such as does the government have the ability to raise a tax or not

I’d take chaos that I actually participated in creating over the preexisting oligarchy any day. I’m also not sure why you think it would be any more chaotic than the existing run of government. Are we less competent at making laws today than we were a hundred years ago? In any case, it seems plainly ridiculous on its face that I am to be bound by laws I had no part in voting for. This idea that my ancestors get to de…

[deleted]

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#150

Post by rootusrootus » Tue, Jan 02, 2024, 6:45 PM UTC

Topgamer7 wrote: post #74

mmastrac wrote: post #4

It's a shame that we don't have open formulas in code form published by the government. The only way that I know how to do this reliably is using the web form provided by the CRA here: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/e-services/... As you can imagine, doing this by hand is quite painful and error-prone.

I want something similar for my mortgage calculation. For example I cannot get my bank (TD Canada) to inform me of how much each payment goes towards my principal. I'm pretty sure I've calculated it properly, however the number is often in the 10's of dollars off from what the bank reports my outstanding balance is after a payment is made. Also don't get me started that I can't use an api to get my account details an…

Is this something particular to how Canada does mortgages? In the US, a bog standard mortgage is 12 payments a year, with all interest for the month accruing on the 1st day of each month. It's pretty trivial to put that into Excel and use the IPMT function (and related ones like PMT) to spit out the interest being paid in a given month. It's always been dead-on accurate for me.

Maybe this is just one little upside of mortgage terms in the US being dictated mostly by the gov't through fannie mae and freddie mac.