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A Canadian payroll dependency chart

daemonology.net

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Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#101
post #9

In France, these rules are available as a website, an API, a NPM package, and raw rules in the https://publi.codes language. https://mon-entreprise.urssaf.fr/développeur

There is also a canada version for simulation: `https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/e-services/...`

Or Quebec Version

`https://www.revenuquebec.ca/en/online-services/tools/webras/`

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#102
post #17

Are there any countries with good, reasonable tax systems? I'm only familiar with Canada and the USA, both of which are a bit of a mess, though seemingly in different ways. I'd be very interested in hearing what the process is like in other places.

I can give you a primer on the system for independent contractors in Poland:

-Flat minimal monthly pension contribution either filed as a business expense or just deducted from gross income - subtly different, but functionally the same as long as you have income. Calculated as the pension contribution of someone making 60% of the average wage - the exact number is published on an annual basis.

-Income tax: every January you can select one of several schemes:

1. Two brackets - 17% and 32% with the first 30k PLN ($7k USD) tax-free and ability to file taxes together as a married couple, in which case you effectively average out your and your spouse's incomes and pay taxes accordingly.

2. 19% flat rate, no tax-free range, no rules like for marriages.

3. 12% flat rate, mostly same as 2., except on top of that you can't file business expenses. There a few different rates in this scheme, but IT generally falls under the group charged 12%.

Healthcare contributions depend on tax scheme chosen above and are calculated as a percentage of gross income from the previous month minus deductions and expenses.

1. - 9%, 2. - 4,9%, 3. - 3%.

That is mostly it. Regular employees have more complicated rules with employer contributions on top of gross income and small deductions like for living sufficiently far from the workplace, having an internet connection and whatnot, but they don't add up to much.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#103
post #89
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Defaults matter and inertia is real. There’s no way to repeal amendments today in practice. It seems ridiculous to me that we can change the whole administration every generation but we can’t replace the laws while we’re at it? Are dead men somehow wiser than we the living that the laws apply to? Every law under a representative system should have a default expiration date no later than an average human lifespan.

that would be absolute chaos, especially when it comes to foundational terms such as does the government have the ability to raise a tax or not

I’d take chaos that I actually participated in creating over the preexisting oligarchy any day.

I’m also not sure why you think it would be any more chaotic than the existing run of government. Are we less competent at making laws today than we were a hundred years ago?

In any case, it seems plainly ridiculous on its face that I am to be bound by laws I had no part in voting for. This idea that my ancestors get to decide for me is as unfair as people in a different country deciding for me. The practical considerations are irrelevant; I am taxed without representation.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#104
post #17

Are there any countries with good, reasonable tax systems? I'm only familiar with Canada and the USA, both of which are a bit of a mess, though seemingly in different ways. I'd be very interested in hearing what the process is like in other places.

In Poland there are some complexities when you run a company / employ, but as an employee it's relatively straightforward UX where you click through a government-operated "income tax fillings wizard" and either just OK a pre-filled declaration or add a couple missing items. Paper filling is a bit more complicated, but I think you can get help at the tax office to get 1 or 2 forms sorted out.

For self-employment I send 2 documents per month regarding my expenses (which is somewhat easy if you understand the rules), plus one or two summaries per year. Hiring is a bit more complicated, I only file simplified declarations for employing private people as contractors. Otherwise I'm pretty much a worst case scenario as I file 7 different yearly declarations covering most possible sources of income defined in the law. It's not that bad, but it could be better.

Running a company can be practically automated with an online accounting SaaS, including payroll. Laws tend to be relatively understandable and there isn't much complicated math. Most of the recent confusion was around shitty laws poorly implemented and then partially reverted by our previous government. I did not enjoy that, but there were some decent online writeups explaining how to proceed.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#105
post #4

It's a shame that we don't have open formulas in code form published by the government. The only way that I know how to do this reliably is using the web form provided by the CRA here: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/e-services/... As you can imagine, doing this by hand is quite painful and error-prone.

I want something similar for my mortgage calculation. For example I cannot get my bank (TD Canada) to inform me of how much each payment goes towards my principal. I'm pretty sure I've calculated it properly, however the number is often in the 10's of dollars off from what the bank reports my outstanding balance is after a payment is made. Also don't get me started that I can't use an api to get my account details an…

FWIW, being off by 10s of dollars sounds to me like different ideas of how to count days. Banks sometimes use calendar days, sometimes business days, and sometimes a fictitious calendar with 12 months of 30 days each.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#106
post #9

In France, these rules are available as a website, an API, a NPM package, and raw rules in the https://publi.codes language. https://mon-entreprise.urssaf.fr/développeur

Here's that NPM package: https://www.npmjs.com/package/modele-social and https://github.com/betagouv/mon-entreprise

This is incredible. I absolutely love the idea of official, government-supported machine readable versions of these kinds of rules.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want something similar for my mortgage calculation. For example I cannot get my bank (TD Canada) to inform me of how much each payment goes towards my principal. I'm pretty sure I've calculated it properly, however the number is often in the 10's of dollars off from what the bank reports my outstanding balance is after a payment is made. Also don't get me started that I can't use an api to get my account details an…

Anecdotally, the bank often cannot tell you how much. It has come up multiple times on /r/personalfinancecanada that the bank isn't really sure or generates a few different calculations. I also worked for a mid sized Canadian bank where the advisors couldn't consistently do it either.

If you're on a fixed rate mortgage it seems like this should be trivial...?

Variable rate throws it out of whack of course.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#108
post #4

It's a shame that we don't have open formulas in code form published by the government. The only way that I know how to do this reliably is using the web form provided by the CRA here: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/e-services/... As you can imagine, doing this by hand is quite painful and error-prone.

I want something similar for my mortgage calculation. For example I cannot get my bank (TD Canada) to inform me of how much each payment goes towards my principal. I'm pretty sure I've calculated it properly, however the number is often in the 10's of dollars off from what the bank reports my outstanding balance is after a payment is made. Also don't get me started that I can't use an api to get my account details an…

I was in the same boat. I ran into similar discrepancies until I realized that I was not accounting for the number of days in the month correctly.

One option is to call the mortgage department and ask them to provide the split. When I asked the agent why I couldn't see it online, she mentioned their system is not setup to show this information. No idea why. Pretty frustrating.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#109
post #100

I'm in the US but I'll say for sure that things like this are about half the reason I haven't hired any employees for my LLC. I wish I could, but I'd be de facto hiring an accountant as well!

If you are considering hiring and the hire is a developer or at all involved in research and experimentation make sure you are well versed in Section 174.

You could be on the hook for a large tax bill since you have to write off developer expenses over 5 years – this is true whether an employee or contractor.

Hopefully it will be repealed* – but if not it is one of those things that no one would expect to exist since it is in the words of Senator Wyden "stupid."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/174

* edit It won't be repealed but a law can be created to ignored it until a future date. Once on the books, because of accounting, it is very hard to remove a tax law.

Re: A Canadian payroll dependency chart

#110
post #83
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and heavily subsidized by other parts of Canada via transfer payments.

Well transfer payments are a lot more complicated than some folks would have you believe - Canada as a nation benefits from all our parts being within a common business zone so while some areas are mineral rich other areas have strong service economies that have needed help through the pandemic.

"Needed help" because the powers of the day decided to lock down the economy far past any reasonable length of time. I suppose if I quit my job I "need help" feeding myself too.

Another example is Quebec sitting on a gargantuan natural gas reserve, but preferring to keep it in the ground because it's more advantageous to simply receive payments from other provinces (Alberta). Carbon/emission considerations aside, this shows just how broken the incentive structure is for equalization payments between provinces.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg as far as Canadian governmental issues go, and it's hard to know where to start improving things.

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