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Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

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Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#61

Post by knome »

mjburgess wrote: post #22

This is just an end to copyright. There is no definition of "AI", it has always been a marketing term for monetising csci research. There is no difference between a lossy jpg, taking its pixels as weights, and the weights of a NN. So if i just zip up copyrighted images using a NN, then, what? They're public domain? Regulators here are miles away from understanding the implications -- this is what happens when you let…

This is little more than baseless fearmongering.

"zip up copyrighted images using a nn" is trek level technobabble.

that's not how NNs work.

how the hell does it even connect to privacy?

copyright isn't what makes it illegal to expose and have your medical records

it's privacy violations, which this doesn't even touch

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#62

Post by ziddoap »

cwillu wrote: post #36
ziddoap wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? Speed and scale make these completely unrelated in my opinion.

Speed and scale also makes the printing press completely different than the pencil, but the principle that the user is responsible for the output remains practical.

My opinion is that people should just state that conclusion rather than make these silly comparisons.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#64

Post by jncfhnb »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #39
dougmwne wrote: post #13

I think it’s a weak argument anyway. A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? The legal responsibility always has been and should continue to be on the person publishing or making available the work. And at any rate, a country banning this tech will be missing the revolution. Protecting the buggy whip manufacturers and all that.

What's the difference between picking a cherry tomato from your streetside garden and eating it, and driving a combine harvester over your lawn and taking everything?

Pathetically incongruent analogy

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#65

Post by mmmpetrichor »

ziddoap wrote: post #21
dougmwne wrote: post #13

I think it’s a weak argument anyway. A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? The legal responsibility always has been and should continue to be on the person publishing or making available the work. And at any rate, a country banning this tech will be missing the revolution. Protecting the buggy whip manufacturers and all that.

A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? Speed and scale make these completely unrelated in my opinion.

How though? You don't need an LLM to copy and paste a Disney character and post it on a million websites. An LLM returning an output isn't the same as publishing something. It's not being redistributed by virtue of just being output by the LLM.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#66

Post by keikobadthebad »

LegitShady wrote: post #18
keikobadthebad wrote: post #14

Something else is going to have to give... copyright applies to artists and authors not in the sense they can't learn from other peoples' content, but that they can't plagiarize it. So either that end will have to stand the same for humans and AI, one way or the other.

humans and AI aren't the same. There's no reason to think it will have to be the same.

Yes there is - why should a well-proven law against plagiarism just evaporate if the human gets an ai to do it instead of does it themselves? Either the law should be revoked wholesale or it will have to be applied wholesale.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#67

Post by xyproto »

Copyright is a dumb system in the first place. Information wants to be free. People can still pay other people for a promise to create more content, or to create custom content. Companies can still have trademarks and patents for a couple of years. And states, royalty and rich people can still be patrons.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#68

Post by ziddoap »

agilob wrote: post #57
ziddoap wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? Speed and scale make these completely unrelated in my opinion.

So if I use 500 pages/minute scanner it will be fine?

My comment doesn't say what my opinion on the topic is, just that pencils and LLMs are hardly comparable due to difference in speed and scale.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#69

Post by breadwinner »

AI training is no different than a human reading copyrighted material and training his biological brain. In neither case is the "brain" allowed to regurgitate source material in its original form. And as long as that doesn't happen there is no copyright violation.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#70

Post by DarkmSparks »

As much as I want to be on the AI industries side here. rumours of chatgpt producing verbatim copies of NYT articles kinda suggests its still going to apply to the output.

Obviously, there is a difference between training AI and using AI.

Its very hard to make a case that training AI breaches copyright in any way.

But its copyright 101 that if what that AI spits out after isn't transformative the AI retailer is getting hefty fines.

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