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Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

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Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#51

Post by mjburgess »

ziddoap wrote: post #45
mjburgess wrote: post #22

This is just an end to copyright. There is no definition of "AI", it has always been a marketing term for monetising csci research. There is no difference between a lossy jpg, taking its pixels as weights, and the weights of a NN. So if i just zip up copyrighted images using a NN, then, what? They're public domain? Regulators here are miles away from understanding the implications -- this is what happens when you let…

If you don't care about Disney, fine -- so what about your health records? Can you help me understand the relationship here? Something can be protected by privacy laws without being under copyright, and vice versa.

see my reply to throwawaymaths

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#52

Post by Workaccount2 »

ziddoap wrote: post #21
dougmwne wrote: post #13

I think it’s a weak argument anyway. A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? The legal responsibility always has been and should continue to be on the person publishing or making available the work. And at any rate, a country banning this tech will be missing the revolution. Protecting the buggy whip manufacturers and all that.

A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? Speed and scale make these completely unrelated in my opinion.

Cripple the future so we don't have to leave the ways of the past...

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#53

Post by bakugo »

dougmwne wrote: post #13

I think it’s a weak argument anyway. A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? The legal responsibility always has been and should continue to be on the person publishing or making available the work. And at any rate, a country banning this tech will be missing the revolution. Protecting the buggy whip manufacturers and all that.

I just tried asking my pencil to draw me a picture of Mario but nothing happened. What gives?

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#55

Post by tivert »

LegitShady wrote: post #18
keikobadthebad wrote: post #14

Something else is going to have to give... copyright applies to artists and authors not in the sense they can't learn from other peoples' content, but that they can't plagiarize it. So either that end will have to stand the same for humans and AI, one way or the other.

humans and AI aren't the same. There's no reason to think it will have to be the same.

> humans and AI aren't the same. There's no reason to think it will have to be the same.

Exactly. It would be entirely legitimate to legally privilege human learning without allowing that privilege to transfer (by analogy) to machine learning.

There are a lot of people who want use analogy to force the transfer of that privilege because 1) they judge they can profit handsomely and/or 2) they're technology enthusiasts who've read too much sci-fi.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#56

Post by notatoad »

bakugo wrote: post #53
dougmwne wrote: post #13

I think it’s a weak argument anyway. A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? The legal responsibility always has been and should continue to be on the person publishing or making available the work. And at any rate, a country banning this tech will be missing the revolution. Protecting the buggy whip manufacturers and all that.

I just tried asking my pencil to draw me a picture of Mario but nothing happened. What gives?

You're holding it wrong.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#57

Post by agilob »

ziddoap wrote: post #21
dougmwne wrote: post #13

I think it’s a weak argument anyway. A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? The legal responsibility always has been and should continue to be on the person publishing or making available the work. And at any rate, a country banning this tech will be missing the revolution. Protecting the buggy whip manufacturers and all that.

A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? Speed and scale make these completely unrelated in my opinion.

So if I use 500 pages/minute scanner it will be fine?

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#58

Post by lesuorac »

paxys wrote: post #41

There is a distinction to be made between inputs and outputs when it comes to AI and copyright. Most people focus on the former, and discuss whether you can train an LLM on copyrighted works or not, but ultimately the issues really only manifest in the latter. An AI training itself on a million newspaper articles can be declared legal, sure, but what happens when it also starts spitting out the same articles with nea…

> This is what the crux of NYT's lawsuit is about, and making laws about AI training isn't going to make a difference to that.

The claims of NYT are more than just about training. They're claiming that as part of the ChatGPT software; it _looks up_ stuff in a database of articles. That is beyond _training_.

If a human kept around a briefcase of NYT articles they didn't pay for and let you view them for a fee I think everybody would agree that's copyright infringement.

The focus on "whats the difference between an AI and a Human learning" is a great slight of hand to bypass the obvious copyright infringement OpenAI is doing.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#59

Post by munk-a »

jasoneckert wrote: post #28

I wonder how or if this will affect the NYT case ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38781941 ). It could potentially shift the focus from protecting the source of the data used to train models to preventing the outputs from competing with the source.

Well it's a different jurisdiction entirely - but if that case was happening in Japan after this ruling it'd likely be extremely easy for OpenAI to win the case.

Re: Japan Goes All In: Copyright Doesn't Apply to AI Training

#60

Post by bee_rider »

dougmwne wrote: post #13

I think it’s a weak argument anyway. A pencil can be used to recreate copyrighted works. Why should a LLM be different? The legal responsibility always has been and should continue to be on the person publishing or making available the work. And at any rate, a country banning this tech will be missing the revolution. Protecting the buggy whip manufacturers and all that.

What’s the work? Would you say it ought to be legal to distribute a really good prompt to generate a copyright character? What about an embedding?
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