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We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

erikmcclure.com

191–200 of 421 posts

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#191
post #58

For a lot of things the problem is essentially a problem of scale. Those "ancient human tribes" who did so much better were tribes of 100-200 people, and it's actually not that hard to "do the right thing" with a relatively small group of people. Blaming it on the two-party system is such a short-sighted US-centric point of view. There are plenty of countries with other types of democracies, and they have roughly sim…

The ancient tribes did better because when they didn't, people died of starvation. Pretty big incentive here.

Nobody died from the UEFI custom image vulnerability.

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given current events, I don't understand how you can hold this view? We've recently seen a truly horrifying terrorist attack, and the response was as brutal as you would expect. Surely the people who planned and executed it knew that better than we do, since presumably it's their business to know such things. Surely that's a constructive proof that this notion is mistaken?

> We've recently seen a truly horrifying terrorist attack, and the response was as brutal as you would expect. Indeed. And the reason why such an attack happened is because the people who did the attack were the ruling government body of 2 million people for almost 2 decades, and were left to their own devices to build up a large scale attack, involving 1 thousand+ combatants. And in a few months, those combatants an…

Uhm, no, they are not the "ruling body," I think you should revisit the fundamental facts of the situation and reevaluate your perspective.

To be frank your comment has a really disturbing undertone of bloodlust. I don't know a nice way to say that. You should really reexamine what your attitudes are here and how you came to them, this is not an appropriate way to discuss the deaths of thousands of people.

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#193
post #42

Who is "we"? When engineers are not subject to licensure, don't be surprised when management, pushed by bean counters, let the bean counters make the decisions. Subject engineers to licensure, including ethics clauses, including clauses for building for repairability and minimum expected product lifetimes. Legally protect engineers from dismissal or retribution for invoking these clauses. Then see how much crap we co…

> Subject engineers to licensure That'd be great. It can also finally define a standard for things like clean code, development cycles and and design patterns. Companies keep claiming to promote these things but it seems to be just a lot of equivocations.

Because licensing is working so well in other disciplines?

Magic fairy dust!

Look at some civil engineering disasters: licensing doesn't prevent disasters.

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#194
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He doesn't even give an example of "ancient human tribes," but modern day nomads whose traditions have also developed over thousands of years. If ancient human tribes were so great at avoiding tragedy of the commons, I would be eating a mammoth steak right now.

Maybe losing mammoths wasn't actually a tragedy.

It was for the mammoths.

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#195
post #29
post #17

No, we can’t “fix everything” because not everyone agrees that these are problems which need solving, or that your proposed solutions are actually an improvement. I feel like most people go through this thought process around junior year in college. “If only they would put me in charge, I could fix everything.” Yes, the world is not that simple, what a surprise…

> your proposed solution is actually an improvement. Whenever we try to improve anything in this world (software, hardware, humans, society, laws, constitutions), we measure a bunch of things beforehand, then we measure again after implementing the change. If it's faster or cheaper or lighter or taller or some measurable amount different , we can quite easily determine if the changes have in fact improved upon the wa…

The critique is not that it's impossible for all changes to measure improvement, just that it isn't possible in many cases, because the ideas about what constitutes improvement differ.

And even if there was agreement on a set of aspects, measuring them is not the holy grail. You can rarely measure the effect directly. You have to measure some proxy (operationalize it). And the definition of that proxy is going to cause problems.

That, plus --of course-- vested interests, makes that you can't fix everything. The best you can hope for is gradual improvement, and a change of direction when the plan doesn't work out as hoped. Those are political choices, not technical.

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#196
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How so?

First of all, I don't actually think the argument is even very coherent. So lets break it down as far as I can understand.

As background I would argue leftist in the 1970s created 'neoliberalism', its not and never was a coherent framework of policy proposed or defended by anybody. What it was is simply a framework for leftists to throw literally anybody that doesn't agree with them (outside of leftist anarchists) into that bucket.

The function was to simply group all opposing view points under one umbrella to have a unified attack vector.

Somehow extreme free market people, social democrats and social conservatives are under one umbrella and somehow together have organized a global conspiracy to defend this supposed philosophy.

Swedish policy makers who wanted to reduce government share of GDP from 60% to 50% are just evil Friedman loving market fundamentalists. Neoliberals want to somehow reduce governments but also want military to globally enforce neoliberal hegemony. Of course, that makes total sense. Or it maybe just could be that we are talking about lots and lots of different groups with fundamentally different points of view.

> If the ultimate aim of neoliberal capitalism is to create a world where no one believes any other economic system could really work

This just fundamentally makes no sense, 'neoliberal capitalism' does not have any opinions. There isn't even a clear organization that represent 'neoliberalism'.

So somehow what he is saying here is that all the people who 'believe' in neolibearlism somehow have convinced themselves that their live goal should be 'creating a world where no one believes in alternatives'.

The idea that all those supposed neoliberals somehow have a coherent program of eliminating alternatives is ridiculous.

Politicians don't want to successfully solve problems and get reelected in a land-slide victory, they much rather lose but preserve neoliberal world order. Anybody that believes this is actually delusional.

The reality is solving problems is actually hard. The solution David would like (as far as I can tell) to see aren't a magical pill that will win election no matter how much he thinks they would be. And most of the problems aren't hard because of some neoliberal conspiracy against progress but because they politically hard and even if you can get politics to somewhat line up, actual execution is also very hard. See California High Speed Rail for example.

> but really any radically different technological future at all

Ok, so neoliberalism is somehow preventing technological improvements, if I understand that correctly. I guess one can make that argument, but I would like some actual facts and examples. Because I don't see it.

Countries that are very neoliberal in global comparison have gone in very different direction. The Netherlands, inventor of modern capitalism, is revolutionizing transport thanks to the humble bike.

Switzerland, has fundamentally changed its rail transportation system and massively increased rail modal share. They built the largest tunnel in the world to protect the Alps from to much trucking.

Japan has people travel even more by rail and they are even building a crazy high speed maglev.

If you look at the US, Netherlands, Switzerland and Japan, you see radically different conception of the future of transport. But these countries are all some form of neoliberal.

What amazing transport technology is 'neoliberalism' preventing from taking over? What path of technology is prevented by being 'neoliberal'.

> It cannot mean convincing us that technological change has come to an end—since that would mean capitalism is not really progressive.

And 'it' (again not a thing) wouldn't want to ...

> It means convincing us that technological progress is indeed continuing, that we do live in a world of wonders, but to ensure those wonders largely take the form of modest improvements (the latest iPhone!), rumors of inventions about to happen (“I hear they actually are going to have flying cars pretty soon”), even more complex ways of juggling information and imagery, and even more complex platforms for the filling out of forms.

Again, there is no substance to this. Its in the nature of semiconductors that it can evolve faster then say massive rail infrastructure. To simply dismiss all progress in computing as somehow irrelevant is absurd. Improvements in software, sensors and data is what makes so many other things possible, modern manufacturing, modern research and development wouldn't be the same without it. His casual divisiveness about computation as trivial is simply idiotic.

But its hard to argue with him since he provides no counter argument at any kind, just some vague assertion that (a) neoliberalism is a dominate ideology (b) technological progress is slow.

If we look at most machines, efficiency is rising continuously. New EMU trains and electric lokos are more efficient, new passenger planes are significantly more efficient, rocket technology has improved by a huge margin, electric cars have unprecedented growth, electric bikes are revolutionary. I could go on.

At the same time, as I have demonstrated above, countries are doing revolutionary things even with existing technology. The bike hasn't gotten better, but the Dutch have revolutionized transport anyway.

He needs to demonstrate that technology is failing us to actually make this argument.

> (“I hear they actually are going to have flying cars pretty soon”)

The obsession with flying cars is a US obsession that is not talked about much here in Switzerland where I live. Instead we are in process of talking about Rail 2050 project and how it should look. Rail 2035 project is ongoing.

The US has built itself into a car depended hellhole and the flying car is the only solution a car dependent nation can figure out. I guess for David this is also neoliberals fault, despite many other nations who are also 'neoliberal' according to him not having the same issues.

And of course the obsession with the car is something that actual classical liberals never would have wanted. National highway program is a gigantic ongoing infrastructure project. A massive book of regulation about road building that encodes all the worst design principles in law and makes it impossible to build modern advanced infrastructure. Governments that use state power to take over private property and put highways threw that land. I guess that neoliberalism as well?

I have not read this new book (and wont) but from what is written here it seems to me that he believes:

- Neoliberalism is a coherent philosophy --> It isn't.

- Assuming it 'was' an actual philosophy, its core tenant is the suppression of alternatives --> It wouldn't be. And even if it was, it couldn't successfully do so.

- Neoliberalism defenders accept personal failure to preserve the NWO (Neoliberal World Order) --> They don't.

- Neoliberalism prevents 'real' technological improvement --> It isn't.

- Neoliberalism prevents solving 'real' problems -> It isn't since it isn't a dominant philosophy to begin with.

To some it up, David Graeber is the 'perfect' leftist intellectual. Never clearly define your own own position and clearly state what and how things should be done instead but still strongly imply that it would be utterly amazing. Spread a bunch of vague smart sounding criticism about societies big evils ( capitalism). Throw some hand selected historical examples with health dose of historical revisionist takes. Throw in a strong dose of 'other intellectuals that don't agree with me are capitalist shills'. And there you have a great leftist table top book.

Reading people like him rather then people who actually have real knowlage about the current situation and propose actual real solutions or at least processes that could be put into place to help real solution from existing are what is actually needed to make progress.

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe losing mammoths wasn't actually a tragedy.

It was for the mammoths.

And for the people who liked to eat mammoths

More to the point, the word "tragedy" in context isn't saying that the end result is neccesarily a tragedy for the people involved. The "tragedy" is our (alleged) inability to have nice shared stable resources, not any specific outcome of any specific resource being exhausted.

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#198
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The post presents a simplistic point of view - that there are universally-agreed-upon solutions to these problems that, through a failure of organizational or coordination capacity, we're unable to enact. The actual reality - that these "solutions" are not as simple or effective as he thinks and that's why we're not doing them - is a lot less gloomy than the thesis he proposes. His call to "build social systems that…

I don’t agree. I got a feeling that in the political space we are given a binary choice between two dudes. The winner is then being courted by big-something to make a decision that benefits said dude. All the nuance and actual say about pressing questions has been removed.

The feeling is understandable, but it’s a symptom of living in a complex world and not something some particular other political system could fully solve. The Netherlands, to pick a topical example, has a healthy multiparty democracy with over a dozen parties who win some representation - but as a consequence, the actual process of deciding who’s in charge happens after the election, with party leaders spending months courting each other to benefit each other in exchange for contributing their votes to a legislative majority. (They’re in a bit of a pickle right now, because a historically unpopular party which used to be frozen out by all the “big-somethings” has won the most legislative seats.)

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#199
post #103

Started reading this and felt my head start to spin a bit, is it just me or does this author seem to have misunderstood the term "coordination failure"? This example about UEFI is like the perfect OPPOSITE of a coordination failure, seems like the issue at hand was just a classic engineering challenge. And likewise with the popcorn button/tragedy of commons example, don't really understand the connection and it feels…

Yes, author doesn't seem to know what tragedy of the commons is either.

Re: We Could Fix Everything, We Just Don't

#200
post #58

For a lot of things the problem is essentially a problem of scale. Those "ancient human tribes" who did so much better were tribes of 100-200 people, and it's actually not that hard to "do the right thing" with a relatively small group of people. Blaming it on the two-party system is such a short-sighted US-centric point of view. There are plenty of countries with other types of democracies, and they have roughly sim…

Problem is that incentives, especially financial incentives, have so much control over our democracy. Why don't we fix the housing crisis? Because homeowners will vote out politicians who reduce their house value. Same answer for why we don't fix global warming, farming subsidies, carried interest loophole. For everything wrong like this, there's a small but determined group of people who will defend the status quo,…

> Why don't we fix the housing crisis? Because homeowners will vote out politicians who reduce their house value.

I mean, i don't think this is a good example. Well im sure the homeowner class wanting to protect their investment does play a part, its not like there are obvious solutions to the problem just waiting to be implemented (or at least not ones that stand up to scrutiny)

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