Live proxy and VPN detection • Hacker News Board

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#21

Post by grepfru_it » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 5:04 AM UTC

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #16

gruez wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Please don't. Not just because of the false positives and false negatives, but because user privacy is actually a good thing. Like it or not, bad actors use VPNs as well, and for some businesses the adverse selection caused by VPNs basically makes banning VPNs a no-brainer (eg. due to fraud).

Ethically: Bad actors use a lot of things; that's a poor excuse for harming the innocent. Practically: The economics probably check out, but bear in mind that it's not one-sided; this will cost you legitimate users.

If the cost of fraud this stops is more than the lost cost of legitimate users..

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#22

Post by tomxor » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 5:10 AM UTC

gruez wrote: post #15

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #14

> This website can detect if your connection is using a Proxy or VPN. Empirically not. > You can add Proxy and VPN detection to your own Website or App. Please don't. Not just because of the false positives and false negatives, but because user privacy is actually a good thing.

>Please don't. Not just because of the false positives and false negatives, but because user privacy is actually a good thing. Like it or not, bad actors use VPNs as well, and for some businesses the adverse selection caused by VPNs basically makes banning VPNs a no-brainer (eg. due to fraud).

Like it or not bad actors also do not use VPNs, so best to block the internet entirely from your site - There are so many bad actors it will probably be worth blocking the handful of legitimate users don't worry ;)

The optimal amount of fraud is non-zero.

Also in an age of CGNAT, state enforced ISP level tracking and blocking. Blocking at the IP level is just lazy. It's like blocking a person because they come from the same town as someone else.

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#23

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 5:28 AM UTC

OVPN came up as a data center so that was accurate.

Shifting to overseas it detected a clock difference between my browser and the exit point. I was testing with chrome though so insecurities like that are to be expected.

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#24

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 5:29 AM UTC

"This website can detect if your connection is using a Proxy or VPN."

If you run someone else's Javascript.

Yeah, there is lots someone can detect if you run their Javascript.

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#25

Post by sqidyyy » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 5:34 AM UTC

arkenfox, No VPN:

Proxy Score: 45/100 - Likely a Proxy VPN Score: 15/55 - Could be a VPN (But Unlikely)

Service sure does assume a lot of things.

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#26

Post by Tostino » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 5:34 AM UTC

mathfailure wrote: post #2

This makes me sad :(

I hope OP fails fantastically. I don't want more companies putting up bullshit filters that have a ton of false positives.

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#27

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 5:34 AM UTC

grepfru_it wrote: post #21

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethically: Bad actors use a lot of things; that's a poor excuse for harming the innocent. Practically: The economics probably check out, but bear in mind that it's not one-sided; this will cost you legitimate users.

If the cost of fraud this stops is more than the lost cost of legitimate users..

I don't seem this impacting fraud in any meaningful way. The cost advantage would be in reducing bandwidth consumed by bots.

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#28

Post by geuis » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 5:58 AM UTC

This isn't accurate at all. From my iPhone with no vpn it says I'm on a vpn and a proxy. This changes each time I refresh the page.

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#29

Post by patrakov » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 7:03 AM UTC

vivzkestrel wrote: post #17

cebert wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The documentation page linked to the demo page gives a good explanation on how this works ( https://proxy.incolumitas.com/integration_instructions.html ) > The most important proxy detection tests with the highest accuracy are: > 1. Latency Test - latency - This test is extremely effective at detecting proxy connections. It works both for residential and datacenter proxies. The reason why this test is effective: It i…

ok but how is all this implemented? is it a machine learning algorithm that classifies latencies with some pre-trained model? or did the library creator set some manual threshold like latency < 200ms = no VPN else VPN?

No. It works in a very simple way. The visitor's IP address is pinged by the server running the test. At the same time, the client establishes a websocket connection to the server, exchanges a few messages, and latency is measured this way, too. The detector exploits the fact that most for-privacy VPNs have a NAT, and therefore the TCP/IP ping test would measure the latency to the VPN server, while the websocket test would measure the latency to the actual client device. A difference would thus indicate a VPN. In practice, this also triggers by a mobile connection while roaming.

Of course this does not work for VPN services like PureVPN, OVPN, and SwissVPN that provide a real public IP address to the client (so both pings measure the latency to the client), or for VPNs that properly firewalled the external NAT IP so that it is not pingable and does not send TCP RST or ICMP Port Unreachable messages when probed. But PureVPN IP ranges are known, so it is detected that way.

Re: Live proxy and VPN detection

#30

Post by anjel » Mon, Jan 01, 2024, 7:08 AM UTC

On a commercial VPN, and this site completely failed to detect it. I'd tell you which VPN company I'm using but yours is not the type of cause I can support.

My connection is my concern and not yours. If bad actors use VPNs while exploiting your site's vulnerable processes, its your concern and not mine.