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Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

forbes.com

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Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The median amount of education debt in 2021 among those with any outstanding debt for their own education was between $20,000 and $24,999. This reflects the central tendency of student loan debts, providing a perspective less influenced by extreme high or low values compared to the average debt amount. https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2022-economic-we...

Yeah, I just added a similar figure to my post. To me, that seems consistent with "very little debt" as discussed above. It's less than the cost of an economy car, for an education that increases average lifetime earnings by over a million dollars.

That's the current debt load, not the debt load graduated with nor the amount that will end up paid over the lifetime of the debt.

Even so, calling a 5 figure debt load "very little" is flat out ridiculous.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#62
post #3
post #2

> “The original purpose of tuition discounting was to make higher education affordable to low-income students,” Bridgewater president David W. Bushman said in a press release explaining the dramatic shift. “But over time, the practice has resulted in higher and higher tuition sticker prices that bear little resemblance to the actual cost of education. This somehow seems inevitable in hindsight. It is quite bizarre, a…

The college system in the US works well. The vast majority of students go to community colleges or public schools and end up with very little debt (if any). The nightmare stories you hear are about the small, vocal minority that go to expensive private schools and/or major in something that doesn't pay well (like theatre) and/or get Masters degrees that put them in debt.

> The vast majority of students go to community colleges or public schools and end up with very little debt (if any).

I wonder if that's really true for state schools anymore.

The two state universities in Kansas (LCOL state) quote ~10-12K annually for in-state tuition alone (KSU: https://www.k-state.edu/sfa/cost/manhattan-campus-costs/unde..., KU: https://admissions.ku.edu/costs). I can't imagine many (if any) states charging significantly less than that.

When you add room and board, food, books, and all the extra hidden fees tacked onto tuition, you're closing in on ~20-25k.

Students aren't getting out of that without debt unless they have a sizable nest egg saved up beforehand and/or work a decent number of hours throughout their school life.

And, while it's certainly doable for an individual to make it through school without debt, there aren't enough decently-paid seasonal jobs around said schools for even a majority of students to follow suit.

It used to be significantly cheaper when I got my BS ~20 years ago, but a push by Republicans to make student loans non-dischargeable in 2005 (see https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/256) along with significant cuts to Kansas spending on education tripled tuition shortly after I graduated.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#63
post #19

I will recommend my kids go to college outside the US unless they get into a household name university. It’s not worth the money anymore. If college was about education surely a benevolent government-university axis would conspire to lower the price by any means; if it were about signaling inclusion into a higher social strata perhaps we might expect college to become ever more expensive… Thiel and Will Hunting have…

in-state tuition for a CS/eng degree at a good school still seems affordable to me. I checked my alma mater in Indiana and I'd do it again.

Most private schools are heavily discounted from their advertised price--currently well beyond 50% discount on average (see below)--so don't focus too much on sticker price. The old wisdom among the college marketers was 'high prices [i.e., tuition sticker prices] send a signal of quality in the market' and that worked for quite a while. ('Ha! I got a great education and a great discount!') The Forbes article might suggest that's not the case any more.

https://www.nacubo.org/Press-Releases/2023/Tuition-Discount-...

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#64
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think so. > As of 2023, approximately 44 million Americans carry student loan debt, with the total student loan debt in the United States reaching $1.76 trillion according to the Federal Reserve. This figure includes both federal and private student loans. It's notable that the number of people with federal student loans is around 43.4 million, and there are about 3.5 million private student loan borrowers, l…

I held a similar level of student loan debt, and it was worth it. My earnings are much larger thanks to the degree it enabled me to pursue, and I was able to pay it off early. While I don't think the system is ideal, just the existence of student debt isn't indicative of an issue, we'd need to look at statistics around what proportion of borrowers have undue hardship as a result.

Personally I don’t think it’s ideal that people who are going into less lucrative but still incredibly important societal roles should have to give up the ability to have basic needs like stable housing met because the cost of getting into those roles preclude the ability to meet basic needs.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#66
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I just added a similar figure to my post. To me, that seems consistent with "very little debt" as discussed above. It's less than the cost of an economy car, for an education that increases average lifetime earnings by over a million dollars.

That's the current debt load, not the debt load graduated with nor the amount that will end up paid over the lifetime of the debt. Even so, calling a 5 figure debt load "very little" is flat out ridiculous.

It's a few percent of the million dollars or more that a good education is worth.

Very little indeed.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick is to have them move out on their own for a gap year in a state that provides free tuition below a certain income threshold.

You might even be able to skip the gap year. My brother went to Rochester Institute of Technology a decade ago for less than what public universities cost in California after the university endowment halved the tuition. FAFSA covered enough of the rest that he didn’t have any debt to speak of from school. Probably worth speaking about in the same vein as high tuition costs and the loans taken to cover them, is that p…

When I went to RIT it was 14k a year. It has to be quite a bit more now.

Overall a great school and worth the money at the time.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#68

I know its a different era but I always felt like taking two years to work before going to college would of been very helpful at least for me and I assume some types of people.

What do you see people doing while working in that time? What sorts of jobs?

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#69
post #2

> “The original purpose of tuition discounting was to make higher education affordable to low-income students,” Bridgewater president David W. Bushman said in a press release explaining the dramatic shift. “But over time, the practice has resulted in higher and higher tuition sticker prices that bear little resemblance to the actual cost of education. This somehow seems inevitable in hindsight. It is quite bizarre, a…

I often wonder why we don't provide free university education in the US.

It would benefit society and employers as a whole.

Re: Half of high school seniors won't apply to colleges costing more than $40k

#70
This is something quite close to me. Our family was fairly poor growing up (though later moved into upper-middle class), and when it came time for college it was a matter of "which college is offering me the most in scholarships?". It was never a consideration to simply choose the highest ranked university. $40k of tuition per year and graduating with $160k in student loans was both unfathomable and untennable.

Looking back on this, it's actually something that I'm now much more unsure about, especially in the light of a fairly large tech salary. When applying to universities, I had an impressive application: a perfect on my math SAT, captain of the football team, professional opera experience, volunteer work and great grades (all credit goes to my parents for pushing me to do all of this). I got into great colleges such as Stanford (#3 on Forbes' university rankings), but turned them all down due to the price. I ended up going to Loyola Marymount (#203) as they gave me a $40k grant for 2 years. When that ran out I transferred and ended up graduating from Hawaii Pacific University (unranked, but objectively quite poor).

Was this the right choice, and would I have made the same call if I could go back? I'm not sure. $160k is much less to me today than it was when I was 18, so the value of the college feels more worth it by comparison. That said, I ended up successful regardless of the university I attended, but this might just be survivorship bias, especially considering when I look around at my peers, almost all of them are graduates of ivy leagues.

From a more objective lens, I think colleges offer three things: education, maturity, and access.

Educationally, there was a stark difference between Loyola and Hawaii Pacific, so I do think there's merit in pursuing a good university, but would there have been the same delta between LMU and Stanford? For that I'm not sure, especially with the resources online today.

From a maturity standpoint, I think I could have gotten this anywhere, as long as it was out of my hometown. Being out on my own was a fairly important aspect of my growth, and interestingly this increased when I moved out to Hawaii and was even further separated. I lived out in Sydney for a bit, and this too stretched me. I'd have loved to have had the opportunity to study overseas for this fact - I think being challenged by a different culture and being out on my own would have amplified the maturization effects of this.

On the access side, higher end universities excel here. They offer both peer connections and a stamp of approval. I've seen these two things open plenty of doors for my peers.

Because of these aspects, I think if I could go back I'd likely pursue the following: Study overseas for the first two years, then transfer into a more prestigeous ivy league to graduate from. Ideally that captures the best balance of optimizing for the three things universities offer, while minimizing the cost.

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