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Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

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Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#401

Post by tptacek »

edanm wrote: post #393
mrtksn wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Anyway, %50 women and children causality rate on top of illegal occupation and other atrocities wouldn't convince anyone about it being a "collateral damage". Gaza isn't occupied any longer, or at least, not in the traditional sense. Israel left Gaza in 2005. As for the casualty rate - just look at the casualty rate in e.g. the Iraq war. Every civilian death is tragic, but war really does involve a lot of collatera…

I think you're putting in a lot of energy to try to reason with someone who isn't going to be reasoned with, and really it's just not reasonable to expect to resolve one of the world's most complex conflicts in a 20+-message deep HN thread.

I'm just writing this because I'd want someone to write something similar to me if I was locked into a thread like this.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#402

Post by wolverine876 »

nradov wrote: post #383
wolverine876 wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say that? At least, a significant amount of world trade passes through there, and the US is dependent on economies of its trading partners and of the world in general. If you mean, not many countries ship directly to the US via the Suez Canal, I can imagine that. Europeans sail west across the Atlantic, East Asians sail east across the Pacific. India, perhaps, might go west through the Canal, but I don…

What makes me say that is the fact that none of the top US trading partners are in that region. Almost all of our overseas trade is on Atlantic and Pacific routes, very little through the Suez Canal. https://usafacts.org/articles/which-countries-does-the-us-tr...

What are your thoughts on the rest of the GP comment?

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#403

Post by TMWNN »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #399
TMWNN wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>America might be less fucked than everyone else. But it would still get fucked. Again, if one has a job—albeit with hours cut—and a place to live and everyone else doesn't, who is better off? >Great analogy. You’re talking about economic catastrophe on par with the Great Depression, which involved a 29% reduction in GDP. The Depression has a unique place in US history because it hit the US harder and earlier than th…

> if one has a job—albeit with hours cut—and a place to live and everyone else doesn't, who is better off? You’re both fucked. This is like asking if a massive asteroid hit the other side of the Earth, the people on the other side are not “much, much poorer.” That’s plainly idiotic. > Depression has a unique place in US history because it hit the US harder and earlier than the rest of the world It was also a massive…

>You’re both fucked. This is like asking if a massive asteroid hit the other side of the Earth, the people on the other side are not “much, much poorer.” That’s plainly idiotic.

In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king.

>It was also a massive and unprecedented drawdown. People first and foremost measure their lives relative to their recent past. Not how folks halfway around the world are doing.

I said what I said not because Americans during the Depression saw their economy as worse off than that of other countries; rather, that the Depression holds a place in US history and culture that it does not in most other countries.

More to the point, I was addressing those who in 2017 and today immediately respond to any talk of the US raising tariffs, or reducing its military commitments abroad, with how the US will suffer the most economically (often with invokings of the "petrodollar" nonsense) when this is in no way, shape, or form true. It's a fundamentally incorrect and, often, dishonest response.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#404

Post by AnimalMuppet »

wolverine876 wrote: post #137
dboreham wrote: post #48

"anti-ship ballistic missiles" Interesting guidance problem.

IIRC when China developed the first one, it was a game-changer in the western Pacific. Until then, US carriers and other ships could safely go where they wanted, including within range of Taiwan in case of a war. The US Navy had sufficient defenses against 'cruise' anti-ship missiles (that fly parallel to the ground, like planes). But ballistic missiles are much harder to intercept (and I think have much greater rang…

If I understand correctly, China has a much harder problem than the Houthis. Knowing where a carrier is that is 200 miles behind Taiwan, so 300 miles off the coast of China, knowing the location accurately enough to give targeting information to a missile... that's a hard problem.

Knowing where a ship is in a straight that's 30 miles wide? That's a lot easier.

So I suspect that the Houthis can't do what the Chinese can.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#405

Post by Tommstein »

lovelyviking wrote: post #348
m4rtink wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, US could (and should!) send much more weapons than it did so far - a lot of really useful surplus kit still laying around in warehouses all around the US.

Exactly! Ukraine is loosing the best Ukrainians as we speak due to the lack of weapons and it’s heart breaking to say the least. Those people in front like need much more support then they get. It’s a moral obligation of the west among other reasons.

I support Ukraine in this like all civilized people, but we have absolutely no moral obligation to Ukraine whatsoever. When the Iron Curtain fell and pretty much everyone who was behind it ran to NATO for protection from Russia as fast as they could, even countries that don't even share a border with Russia, Ukraine was like "nah, Russia's not that bad, don't wanna take sides between them and NATO, what's the worst that could happen?" Well, they got to find out. It's too late to change your mind once it's too late.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#406

Post by viraptor »

snird wrote: post #309
viraptor wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The border to Egypt refuses any cargo. All goods have to be brought in through Israel. There two issues there - that doesn't make the effective blockade from Israel's side a non-issue.

So if Egypt refuses - why should Israel supply an enemy that mass murdered entire families and babies and mass raped teenage girls? https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-hamas-oct-7-mur...

Why are you equating Palestinian population to Hamas? And omitting that not supplying the population is effectively equivalent to killing a portion of it? The situation is not as simple as you're trying to reduce it to.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#407

Post by Tommstein »

elromulous wrote: post #23
nomilk wrote: post #4

Something I'm unsure about is what does and doesn't trigger wars. Russian jets downed a US drone over the black sea in March 2023, I thought for sure there'd be a commensurate US military response. But there didn't appear to be one. Was it because no human was aboard the drone (so no response was justified), from fear or escalation, or something else? In any case, if a large cargo ship were sunk, would the US or othe…

It's a function of how powerful one's adversary is. Russia is a superpower.

Good one. They're a gas station with nukes.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#408

Post by mrtksn »

tptacek wrote: post #401
edanm wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, %50 women and children causality rate on top of illegal occupation and other atrocities wouldn't convince anyone about it being a "collateral damage". Gaza isn't occupied any longer, or at least, not in the traditional sense. Israel left Gaza in 2005. As for the casualty rate - just look at the casualty rate in e.g. the Iraq war. Every civilian death is tragic, but war really does involve a lot of collatera…

I think you're putting in a lot of energy to try to reason with someone who isn't going to be reasoned with, and really it's just not reasonable to expect to resolve one of the world's most complex conflicts in a 20+-message deep HN thread. I'm just writing this because I'd want someone to write something similar to me if I was locked into a thread like this.

I was completely reasoned in the necessity of killing 10 thousand women and kids the last few months, what are you talking about?

My favorite act of necessary extermination of civilians by IDF is this one: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/unlawful-killings-in-gaz...

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#409

Post by edanm »

tptacek wrote: post #401
edanm wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, %50 women and children causality rate on top of illegal occupation and other atrocities wouldn't convince anyone about it being a "collateral damage". Gaza isn't occupied any longer, or at least, not in the traditional sense. Israel left Gaza in 2005. As for the casualty rate - just look at the casualty rate in e.g. the Iraq war. Every civilian death is tragic, but war really does involve a lot of collatera…

I think you're putting in a lot of energy to try to reason with someone who isn't going to be reasoned with, and really it's just not reasonable to expect to resolve one of the world's most complex conflicts in a 20+-message deep HN thread. I'm just writing this because I'd want someone to write something similar to me if I was locked into a thread like this.

Yes, you're right of course. It's just... the whole "someone is wrong on the internet" thing and this being a personal issue.

Happy new years! We celebrated by being bombed with rockets, no siren where I am but we heard them being shot down outside our window. That was fun. And of course, for Gazan civilians the new year is so much worse right now, so many displaced people barely getting by.

War is just terrible. I wish humanity would grow up and stop all this violence.

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