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Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

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Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#51

Digital cinema tech here. Sony hasn’t been releasing updates since they exited the business in 2020. This is likely an expired certificate related to the encryption on the movie files.

Are certificates usually/often issued to expire at the end of a given calendar year? On the one hand, that would explain this happening on Dec 31.

But it's slightly weird because it's not yet the new year in UTC. This was posted several hours before that happening, and we've still got over 2 hours to go... (And the cinema is in New York, with almost 8 hours to go in local time, so it's not a local timezone issue either.)

Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#53

Digital cinema tech here. Sony hasn’t been releasing updates since they exited the business in 2020. This is likely an expired certificate related to the encryption on the movie files.

Are certificates usually/often issued to expire at the end of a given calendar year? On the one hand, that would explain this happening on Dec 31. But it's slightly weird because it's not yet the new year in UTC. This was posted several hours before that happening, and we've still got over 2 hours to go... (And the cinema is in New York, with almost 8 hours to go in local time, so it's not a local timezone issue eith…

This is Sony, and it is the new year in Japan.

Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#54
post #40
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In an age where updates are increasingly the norm, I wonder if there's legislation needed to hold manufacturers accountable for updates that break otherwise perfectly-functioning hardware? Maybe there should be a law that says: 1. Upgrades may be performed but never behind the user's back. 2. In particular, the user determines exactly when an upgrade is performed. 3. The user may roll back any update at any time. 4…

1 and 2 - this seems incompatible with how 90% of the population uses software, namely they set it and forget it. Having to manually approve and schedule every single update for everything a user touches would be a) a security nightmare, as most things would never get updated ever and b) a UX nightmare, with a million different things asking for updates. 3 - Maintaining a data path forward is tricky enough. Demanding…

It's all an incentive for "don't just churn software, plan well ahead".

This also seems to be broadly incompatible with fixing certain security vulnerabilities - would everybody have to maintain TLS 1.1 or plaintext api endpoints for old clients?

Or they would forced to produce an update that doesn't do anything other than e.g. upgrade the TLS version --- and has absolutely nothing else.

Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#55
post #40
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In an age where updates are increasingly the norm, I wonder if there's legislation needed to hold manufacturers accountable for updates that break otherwise perfectly-functioning hardware? Maybe there should be a law that says: 1. Upgrades may be performed but never behind the user's back. 2. In particular, the user determines exactly when an upgrade is performed. 3. The user may roll back any update at any time. 4…

1 and 2 - this seems incompatible with how 90% of the population uses software, namely they set it and forget it. Having to manually approve and schedule every single update for everything a user touches would be a) a security nightmare, as most things would never get updated ever and b) a UX nightmare, with a million different things asking for updates. 3 - Maintaining a data path forward is tricky enough. Demanding…

> 1 and 2 - this seems incompatible with how 90% of the population uses software, namely they set it and forget it. Having to manually approve and schedule every single update for everything a user touches would be a) a security nightmare, as most things would never get updated ever and b) a UX nightmare, with a million different things asking for updates.

I don't see how an automatic update setting is incompatible with 2. If a user says "go ahead and install updates as needed" that is the user expressing their desire to receive updates.

I also think the phrasing in 1 is a little needlessly aggressive though I believe it comes from a place of frustration. The difference in my mind between saying "this thing updated behind my back" and "this thing updated automatically for me" is whether the user has registered the update as being beneficial or not, and depending on the device, that's a WIDE spectrum. I know my smart outlets update their firmware all the time, and an extremely small handful of times I do notice, because sometimes they end up not reconnecting to the wifi quite right and need to be reconnected. However if they updated and, for example, broke HomeKit support and no longer worked, I'd be angry the next time I tried to use them.

> 3 - Maintaining a data path forward is tricky enough. Demanding that users be able to downgrade at anytime would be a very tall ask if user data has to survive the downgrade.

I mean, this is just an engineering problem pure and simple. Most of the time, in my experience, graceful downgrade just isn't prioritized because, well, who can even do it for starters? Installing old software oftentimes means you need to do some really intense stuff, like wiping whatever device entirely, so the retention of data is moot.

If this was mandated I see no problem with getting it done in my industry. It's simply a matter of making it a priority IMO.

> 4 - This seems outlandishly expensive to do. This effectively reads “nobody can ever deprecate an api on anything”.

With certain products I can definitely see it being an advantage, and the first place my mind goes to is again, smart home products and appliances, automotive hardware, that sort of thing. Large, expensive items that incorporate software that the user interacts with can be an absolute nightmare when the OEM randomly decides that the way something's worked for years and years for you is now just not an option, or worse still, locks it behind a paywall. And what are your options here? Buy a new car or dishwasher? Or eat shit and pay them $20 a year that they have not earned and are providing no value for?

This is why the newest car I have is a 2018 Corvette, because I know all it's software and have access to it, and there's no system that's going to lock my heated seats behind a Chevrolet Premiere+ subscription where I have to give chevy money to permit my car to engage a damn relay for me.

Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#56

Digital cinema tech here. Sony hasn’t been releasing updates since they exited the business in 2020. This is likely an expired certificate related to the encryption on the movie files.

A digital cinema tech with the username "sprocket35"?

Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are confused about how laws work. A law can cover sales and transactions without any criminal penalties. It can layout the ground for civil actions, to be taken by either government entities or the effected parties themselves. Just because a law is created doesn't mean a new crime with criminal penalties is created.

You're right, there doesn't have to be criminal penalties. Codifying compensation requirements for buggy software seems like it would need to be very broad and effectively a useless law, though.

Not really, just a simple law that said software vendor are liable for actual loss caused by their products would have a huge impact.

Courts are our mechanism for sorting out the details, not legislation.

Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#58
post #56

Digital cinema tech here. Sony hasn’t been releasing updates since they exited the business in 2020. This is likely an expired certificate related to the encryption on the movie files.

A digital cinema tech with the username "sprocket35"?

There have been stranger things

Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#59

Digital cinema tech here. Sony hasn’t been releasing updates since they exited the business in 2020. This is likely an expired certificate related to the encryption on the movie files.

Honestly, is that better? Leaving all the devices set to EOL and get bricked or whatever feels pretty wasteful.

Re: Sony software updates breaks movie theater projectors

#60
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> updates that break otherwise perfectly-functioning hardware? "Every update is a downgrade": http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000606.h...

This is my experience with Roku TVs. They used to be ok, but they can't resist updating them and I have 3 that run noticeably slower than they did originally. It's probably a combination of the OS and apps. Even worse, something got updated that broke CEC integration with my sound bar on one of them, so now I can't use the built in volume control and need to use 2 remotes instead. I know it's a real first world probl…

Roku and smart TV manufacturers are infuriating.

They choose a processor that’s barely sufficient to run the software it releases with, and proceed release a constant stream of updates with nothing of value to the user. Meanwhile every update has the device running 5% slower, making it noticeably sluggish after a couple years.

It almost feels intentional, but I’m sure no bean counter is going to permit spending a few dollars extra per unit for something they probably see as reason for people to upgrade.

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