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I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

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Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#51

Post by arendtio »

IshKebab wrote: post #21
ekianjo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DRM is not welcoming by default... sounds like you have double standards

DRM is not the same as anti-cheat.

They are not, but both are symptoms of a consumer-disrespecting mindset.

- DRM does not serve the consumer, but the producer.

- Anti-cheat only serves the consumer if it is well-designed. However, if someone is able to design a game (technically) well, anti-cheat is unnecessary. And if someone cannot design a game, their anti-cheat is often a disservice to the consumer.

I don't like either DRM or anti-cheat solutions, not because I am not willing to pay the producers, but because I have been burned too many times by dysfunctional solutions.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#52

Post by tapoxi »

Pannoniae wrote: post #6
gclawes wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's awesome. How does proton treat anti-cheat software or DRM?

Those games with anti-cheats are anti-player garbage anyway. You don't lose much without them.

The Valorant community is incredibly in favor of the Vangard anti-cheat that loads as an early kernel mode driver, and the pro/pro-am Counter-Strike scene plays on FACEIT because they have a strong Kernel-based anticheat. VAC, and server-side VACnet just doesn't cut it.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#53

Post by Brian_K_White »

infecto wrote: post #22
ekianjo wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DRM is not welcoming by default... sounds like you have double standards

You are conflating ideas. I don’t think it will be a productive discussion to go down the road of anticheat systems and DRM. We can all have opinions that are different. What is productive is calling out hostile behavior and comments that do nothing but hurt the ecosystem. I see these type of strong negative opinions in a lot of areas of the Linux community. “Oh you do X, that’s stupid you should not be using the pro…

But it's the simple facts.

The best possible, most correct, most defensible, most world-improving advice to give for dealing with a user-hostile product or service, is to have the strength of will to reject it and live without it, and live the example to show that it's possible and you won't die.

Or at the very least, it is AT LEAST as defensible a stance as "The more pragmatic/adult approach is to give the bully whatever they want than to go without their product or service".

That philosophy is not remotely automatically more correct or more adult or nuanced or any of the self-serving words anyone typically uses to try to grant their idea more legitimacy than it deserves.

Calling the principled stance "hostile" is itself hostile.

You can phrase it in a way that sounds emotional and shortsighted and jeuvenile, and certainly there are many juveniles who are guilty of that.

Never the less, rejecting a bad deal is still fundamentally a reaction not an action, a defense not an offense.

The publisher promulgating a user-hostile deal is inarguably the offender, the initial hostile actor.

You can decide that the bad deal is tolerable for yourself, but that is entirely your weakness and does not make that policy smarter or more correct than that of those that decline.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#54

Post by arendtio »

Wytwwww wrote: post #27
Dalewyn wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A computer should serve its user. If the user is serving his computer, they're Linuxing right but otherwise doing it wrong.

Well if cheating is going to make the game almost unplayable the outcome is pretty much the same as you deciding to never install it in the first place due to disliking anticheat systems. So I don't really see the problem.

Obviously, you haven't been in a position where you had to patch the anti-cheat solution yourself in order to play the game you paid for.

Well-designed games offer limited potential for cheaters by design. An anti-cheat software can help to eliminate the little potential that is left, but often games are designed without cheating in mind and some anti-cheat software is put in place to solve all the issues that were produced by the bad design.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#55

Post by OJFord »

jorvi wrote: post #42
COGlory wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI Valve is primarily deploying KDE, which does support VRR. They can't really control what dumb decisions the GNOME folks make. For Mirror's Edge, were you using Steam Input?

Yeah, except I prefer the cleanliness of Gnome over how scattershot and buggy KDE feels, so I’m SoL. I’ve even looked into launching games into their own little Gamescope instance, but if you don’t run Gamescope as your main window manager, you lose most of its benefits. > For Mirror's Edge, were you using Steam Input? Yes. The problem lies in the fact that only the Xone driver properly supports the Xbox wireless ada…

> Yeah, except I prefer the cleanliness of Gnome over how scattershot and buggy KDE feels

But if it's the difference between gaming working or not for you, wouldn't you rather use it? Surely you barely interact with it anyway while gaming, only to get into Steam?

If this is a machine you use for something else too, you could just have a gaming user that logs in to KDE and your normal user that uses Gnome?

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#56

Post by infecto »

Brian_K_White wrote: post #53
infecto wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating ideas. I don’t think it will be a productive discussion to go down the road of anticheat systems and DRM. We can all have opinions that are different. What is productive is calling out hostile behavior and comments that do nothing but hurt the ecosystem. I see these type of strong negative opinions in a lot of areas of the Linux community. “Oh you do X, that’s stupid you should not be using the pro…

But it's the simple facts. The best possible, most correct, most defensible, most world-improving advice to give for dealing with a user-hostile product or service, is to have the strength of will to reject it and live without it, and live the example to show that it's possible and you won't die. Or at the very least, it is AT LEAST as defensible a stance as "The more pragmatic/adult approach is to give the bully wha…

I genuinely appreciate you proving my point.

I am not here debating DRM or anticheat. Simple pointing out that telling someone the game they play is garbage because it uses anticheat does nothing but hurts the Linux ecosystem.

You can come up with another essay but I don’t think it disproves what I am saying. Telling someone the game they play is garbage is not increasing the Linux user base. I am sure there will be a retort here, “we don’t want those kind of users or related software”.

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#57

Post by ho_schi »

COGlory wrote: post #23
jorvi wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll dissent. After hearing people be ecstatic, I thought I’d go full-in on Linux gaming. I have a pretty bog-standard gaming PC that is very Linux-compatible (Intel i5 + Radeon 6800XT) and on there Apex Legends has horrid frame pacing issues, Mirror’s Edge doesn’t work with wireless Xbox controllers. You lose out on a lot of GPU suite features that Windows has. Gnome doesn’t support VRR. Etc etc. There’s so many sma…

FYI Valve is primarily deploying KDE, which does support VRR. They can't really control what dumb decisions the GNOME folks make. For Mirror's Edge, were you using Steam Input?

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/-/merge_requests/1154

You can install it upon Arch from AUR.

Putting that aside:

Windows users always find a reason not to switch to Linux because some missing feature. In two years? There will be another new feature or game on Windows. I remember people insisting on using Windows because it support their „3D-Shutter glasses“ or their card from Nvidia. Either you want use Linux or not :)

Why are many features initially only available on Windows?

First. That is wrong. Important features like cgroups, namespace and containers/Flatpak where novelly developed upon Linux.

Second? MBAs only look at past numbers. So Windows often get traditional Windows stuff first. You make guess it, innovative companies care about what will be possible in future. Valve for example.

The MBA style thinking is also in many consumers. Still buying Nvidia? Because they were faster in the paper sheet? I prefer the cards which works well with Linux, so AMD or Intel. Frames actually generated are more worth than problems with proprietary drivers.

PS: Linux has maybe won the war against drives. Seems like Nvidia open most stuff slowly and feature land in the nouveau-module or mesa. A decade to late. I’m already in Team AMD ;)

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#58

Post by k12sosse »

OJFord wrote: post #55
jorvi wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, except I prefer the cleanliness of Gnome over how scattershot and buggy KDE feels, so I’m SoL. I’ve even looked into launching games into their own little Gamescope instance, but if you don’t run Gamescope as your main window manager, you lose most of its benefits. > For Mirror's Edge, were you using Steam Input? Yes. The problem lies in the fact that only the Xone driver properly supports the Xbox wireless ada…

> Yeah, except I prefer the cleanliness of Gnome over how scattershot and buggy KDE feels But if it's the difference between gaming working or not for you, wouldn't you rather use it? Surely you barely interact with it anyway while gaming, only to get into Steam? If this is a machine you use for something else too, you could just have a gaming user that logs in to KDE and your normal user that uses Gnome?

[flagged]

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#59

Post by Brian_K_White »

infecto wrote: post #56
Brian_K_White wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's the simple facts. The best possible, most correct, most defensible, most world-improving advice to give for dealing with a user-hostile product or service, is to have the strength of will to reject it and live without it, and live the example to show that it's possible and you won't die. Or at the very least, it is AT LEAST as defensible a stance as "The more pragmatic/adult approach is to give the bully wha…

I genuinely appreciate you proving my point. I am not here debating DRM or anticheat. Simple pointing out that telling someone the game they play is garbage because it uses anticheat does nothing but hurts the Linux ecosystem. You can come up with another essay but I don’t think it disproves what I am saying. Telling someone the game they play is garbage is not increasing the Linux user base. I am sure there will be…

[flagged]

Re: I forked SteamOS for my living room PC

#60

Post by Zekio »

jorvi wrote: post #42
COGlory wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI Valve is primarily deploying KDE, which does support VRR. They can't really control what dumb decisions the GNOME folks make. For Mirror's Edge, were you using Steam Input?

Yeah, except I prefer the cleanliness of Gnome over how scattershot and buggy KDE feels, so I’m SoL. I’ve even looked into launching games into their own little Gamescope instance, but if you don’t run Gamescope as your main window manager, you lose most of its benefits. > For Mirror's Edge, were you using Steam Input? Yes. The problem lies in the fact that only the Xone driver properly supports the Xbox wireless ada…

you could try Xow it supports the wireless dongles for xbox controllers if that is what you are trying to use
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