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Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

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Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#301

Post by badpun »

pclmulqdq wrote: post #52
nomilk wrote: post #4

Something I'm unsure about is what does and doesn't trigger wars. Russian jets downed a US drone over the black sea in March 2023, I thought for sure there'd be a commensurate US military response. But there didn't appear to be one. Was it because no human was aboard the drone (so no response was justified), from fear or escalation, or something else? In any case, if a large cargo ship were sunk, would the US or othe…

It's time to read some Clausewitz. That book outlines the philosophy of how most western states think about war. The short version I would say is that war is a tool of politics, so if there is no political goal, there will be no war, regardless of how bad the supposed Causus Belli is. Shooting down a drone usually doesn't do it partly because of the political implications: it would be deeply unpopular to put "boots o…

Russian-backed forces shot down Netherlands' airliner, murdering over 200 people. There was no response either. Countries don't go to war if they don't see it paying off.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#302

Post by johnnyworker »

edanm wrote: post #280
johnnyworker wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t really blame them for trying. You can be sure that the other side of the conflict is also not impartial. Oh, I can for the both of us, and I do. Everyone is responsible for what they do, or tacitly consent to. War is not something that just "is" like rain or snow, it's specific actions of people specific people. And when you say "other side of the conflict" does that include the 1+ million of children, or a…

Look, you obviously care a lot about this topic, but I think you're really wrong on your facts. For the record, I'm Israeli, so take what I say with your appropriate level of skepticism - but I'm going to at least try to get across what I think you're wrong about. I hope you approach what I say with an open mind, though many people tend not to (in any discussion of anything, not just about this). > And when you say "…

[flagged]

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#303

Post by johnnyworker »

edanm wrote: post #280
johnnyworker wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t really blame them for trying. You can be sure that the other side of the conflict is also not impartial. Oh, I can for the both of us, and I do. Everyone is responsible for what they do, or tacitly consent to. War is not something that just "is" like rain or snow, it's specific actions of people specific people. And when you say "other side of the conflict" does that include the 1+ million of children, or a…

Look, you obviously care a lot about this topic, but I think you're really wrong on your facts. For the record, I'm Israeli, so take what I say with your appropriate level of skepticism - but I'm going to at least try to get across what I think you're wrong about. I hope you approach what I say with an open mind, though many people tend not to (in any discussion of anything, not just about this). > And when you say "…

> Israel has the means to kill far more people, if it wanted to - it just doesn't.

That you say this and still come on to me with that "I share your values" stuff is just gold.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#304

Post by badpun »

saiya-jin wrote: post #222
tifik wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Vrbetice is one of them, there is a million reasons why Czechs support a defensive war effort against Russia. E.g: being occupied for decades by Soviets and seeing the country wither under the Moscov rule.

Neighboring countries like Slovakia or Hungary could also state similar historical stuff (I lived through it myself) yet look at their current governments. Hungarians also had 1956 yet look at Orban

Hungary is currently hugely dependent on Russian natgas, so they're completely at Putin's mercy. Putin could have have them freeze to death at a snap of his fingers, which I'm sure was pointed out to Orban during a private audience.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#305

Post by johnnyworker »

badpun wrote: post #297
johnnyworker wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? "Leave" as in "ethnically cleanse themselves, never to return"? So what's all this song and dance about pretending to not be on board with genocide about? > There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza. Ahuh. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-counted-calorie-require... > Israel maintained the blockade was necessary to weaken Hamas,…

> "Leave" as in "ethnically cleanse themselves, never to return"? So what's all this song and dance about pretending to not be on board with genocide about? Ethic cleansing is about mass relocating people, while genocide is about mass murdering them. They are two different phenomena.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide

> acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group

When they all live in refugees in other countries, they are destroyed as a national group. With this level of hair splitting you might as well say it's not genocide as long as even one member of the group survives, why not go there, too.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#306

Post by Stevvo »

pydry wrote: post #186
empath75 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the saudi military is kind of a joke. They have a bunch of expensive gear, but their soldiers aren't particularly well trained or motivated.

[flagged]

This just isn't true. In 2014 the motivation and training of Ukraine's forces was so poor that when encountering the enemy, absent any orders, most would lay down their weapons and join the other side. The majority of the Navy defected. Some western training was received from 2014 to 2020, but the most effective fighters were volunteers who had trained themselves and fought the Enemy completely outside the control of Ukraine's armed forces.

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#307

Post by adolph »

keefle wrote: post #197
userbinator wrote: post #110

I wonder what cargo it was carrying, that got destroyed in the attack. It sounds like the ship itself is still intact, which is not too surprising given how absolutely huge they are.

It might be less about it carrying anything specific and more about who owns it or where its headed. This is part of an effort by the houthis to put pressure on Israel to allow humanitarian aid in (their declared reason at least)). Most of the ships they target are either own fully or partially by Israeli companies, or are headed to Israeli ports

> Most of the ships they target are either own fully or partially by Israeli companies, or are headed to Israeli ports

As I understand it, this is not true. If you have a citation listing strikes with manifests, I’d appreciate being able to update my priors.

Wikipedia lists 17 strikes. I see that 3 have some Israeli ownership or port of call: Galaxy Leader, Symi, and Strinda.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_involvement_in_the_Isra...

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#308

Post by nec4b »

rdtsc wrote: post #289
nec4b wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>As if the houthis in yemen are attacking ships because they like it or just because they "hate developed societies". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slogan_of_the_Houthi_movement

It looks like they adopted the slogan in the early 2000s, so wonder why attack Maersk ships now…

Maybe, they weren't capable of doing so before or were busy with something else?

Re: Maersk ship hit by missile in the Red Sea

#309

Post by snird »

viraptor wrote: post #265
snird wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What blockade? They have a border with Egypt. Why won't Egypt let them leave? There was never a blockade because Israel never surrounded Gaza.

The border to Egypt refuses any cargo. All goods have to be brought in through Israel. There two issues there - that doesn't make the effective blockade from Israel's side a non-issue.

So if Egypt refuses - why should Israel supply an enemy that mass murdered entire families and babies and mass raped teenage girls?

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-hamas-oct-7-mur...

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