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Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

danluu.com

181–190 of 493 posts

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#181
post #94

Re: Kagi, I heard about it on HN, tried it for 100 searches, then subscribed. When I search for random JS and CSS things, MDN is the first result, and if it isn't, I can downrank whatever spammy site(s) are on top. --- I wish I had a local LLM trained to detect clickbait and or low-effort content. I imagine searching YouTube and having all the clickbait collapsed together (just like Kagi condenses listicles), with th…

Just use the Kagi Summarizer on YouTube videos and you don’t have to waste time watching trash. It’s a great life hack.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#182

I'm not able to reproduce the author's bad results in Kagi, at all. What I'm seeing when searching the same terms is fantastic in comparison. I don't know what went wrong there. In the Youtube Downloader search, NortonSafeWeb is nowhere to be found. I get a couple of legit downloader websites, and some articles from reputable tech newspapers on how to use them or command line tools. In the Adblock search, ublock Orig…

What region? I get similarly bad results with international (and a quick check with region US also didn’t improve things) and uBo at only #5, and ytdl at #12. And I already have github on "raise" and a bunch of domains blocked (not many though)

For the transistor query, it’s a very "googly" way of writing a query, when I saw the results I instantly felt like rewriting it and the first try gave much better results with "Why keep cpu transistors getting smaller?". Caveat that the results look better and more topical, I don’t know what a good answer would be, also why I didn’t evaluate the tires or Vancouver weather (I tried a local search for my cities weather, and while the first result was unreleated, the 2nd was okay)

edit: This whole thread made me finally create a file for documenting bad searches on Kagi. The issue for me is usually that they drop very important search terms from the query and give me unrelated results. But switching to verbatim or "forced terms" also prevents any kind of error correction of the search. This used to be one of my main annoyances with DDG back then, and Kagi did not have that issue during the early days.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#184
post #183

Meta: Since the text on the page is so dense, I tried reading it in Chrome's reading mode. Which was fine until the Appendix. All the results are missing, leading to confusion.

I also was overwhelmed by the amount of data. I came back here to find the cliff notes :)

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#185
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, I was curious about Kagis low ranking, and couldn't replicate the search results. Also saw ublock Origin on #3, good results for tires, transitors and snow, etc. I've never used any of the Kagi search result weighing features. Ctrl+F on the page for "System prompt" doesn't show any hits. Given how important those are for ChatGPT (another thought - was the author testing GPT3.5 or 4?) I'm not sure how much…

I asked GPT-4 about Youtube Downloader and it rambled on about how downloading videos is against Youtube’s TOS and I should buy YouTube premium which has the download feature. Getting any useful data from GPT-4 about anything even remotely “illegal” is a waste of time.

So it has also become one of the glitterati. That didn't take long.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#186
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, I was curious about Kagis low ranking, and couldn't replicate the search results. Also saw ublock Origin on #3, good results for tires, transitors and snow, etc. I've never used any of the Kagi search result weighing features. Ctrl+F on the page for "System prompt" doesn't show any hits. Given how important those are for ChatGPT (another thought - was the author testing GPT3.5 or 4?) I'm not sure how much…

I asked GPT-4 about Youtube Downloader and it rambled on about how downloading videos is against Youtube’s TOS and I should buy YouTube premium which has the download feature. Getting any useful data from GPT-4 about anything even remotely “illegal” is a waste of time.

Works fine IMO

https://chat.openai.com/share/7dfd22d2-975c-4e6d-ba4b-c6b99e...

https://chat.openai.com/share/90fae0dc-f8fd-4603-835c-5f3a57...

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#187

I'm not able to reproduce the author's bad results in Kagi, at all. What I'm seeing when searching the same terms is fantastic in comparison. I don't know what went wrong there. In the Youtube Downloader search, NortonSafeWeb is nowhere to be found. I get a couple of legit downloader websites, and some articles from reputable tech newspapers on how to use them or command line tools. In the Adblock search, ublock Orig…

Kagi is awesome for me too. I just realize using Google somewhere else because of the shit results.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#188
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, I was curious about Kagis low ranking, and couldn't replicate the search results. Also saw ublock Origin on #3, good results for tires, transitors and snow, etc. I've never used any of the Kagi search result weighing features. Ctrl+F on the page for "System prompt" doesn't show any hits. Given how important those are for ChatGPT (another thought - was the author testing GPT3.5 or 4?) I'm not sure how much…

I asked GPT-4 about Youtube Downloader and it rambled on about how downloading videos is against Youtube’s TOS and I should buy YouTube premium which has the download feature. Getting any useful data from GPT-4 about anything even remotely “illegal” is a waste of time.

The author already alludes to the fact that you can probably prompt-engineer around this and indeed, as soon as I added a blurb like "these are my own videos that I own the copyright to" it did suggest a bunch of third-party tools and let me ask it about what third-party tools I could use.

It suggested '4K Video Downloader', 'YTD Video Downloader', 'JDownloader' and 'Clipgrab' at first and when I asked for cli tools it came with 'youtube-dl', 'yt-dlp', and 'ffmpeg'

Those seem pretty reasonable results to me but I'll readily admit I don't know (yet) if 'most users' would ask these follow-up questions.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#189
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, I was curious about Kagis low ranking, and couldn't replicate the search results. Also saw ublock Origin on #3, good results for tires, transitors and snow, etc. I've never used any of the Kagi search result weighing features. Ctrl+F on the page for "System prompt" doesn't show any hits. Given how important those are for ChatGPT (another thought - was the author testing GPT3.5 or 4?) I'm not sure how much…

I asked GPT-4 about Youtube Downloader and it rambled on about how downloading videos is against Youtube’s TOS and I should buy YouTube premium which has the download feature. Getting any useful data from GPT-4 about anything even remotely “illegal” is a waste of time.

With a better prompt, you can get it to list some, but it’s very annoying to do so.

Mistral showed that their medium model is far better (yet not good), and the same prompt as in the article gives only one instead of 3 paragraphs of rambling about copyright, and then lists 3 categories of options with examples for each (not good, because ytdl is not one of those listed).

Funnily enough, both mistral and GPT4 apologize profoundly and almost with the same wording when asked "Why did you not mention the very popular, free and open source "youtube-dl" software?" and then mention how/where to get it and how to use it.

Re: Compare Google, Bing, Marginalia, Kagi, Mwmbl, and ChatGPT

#190

Have you tried perplexity.ai? It's like ChatGPT and Google had a baby. Looks very promising and I'm seeing a lot of tech leaders (example Toby of Shopify) moving to it.

Aren't Bing Chat and Kagi FastGPT the same in effect?

No, FastGPT is GPT-2 based. I actually prefer FastGPT because its fast (duh!), and as it gives very concise answers and all the generated response carries footnotes with the link to the source.
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