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UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

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Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#131

> with more than four million working hours spent to get to this point. A typical Brit might work 80,000 hours in a lifetime. So this interconnector is the lifetimes work of 50 people. It is approximately 1 millionth of the total work output of all people alive in the UK. Not sure if that is more or less than I expected...

A bit less than I expected

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#132
post #3

Re: cutting undersea cables. For critical infrastructure like this during cold war style conditions (i.e. Russian-NATO conflict), I wonder how pros/cons of public vs private ownership compare... For example: I could imagine sabotaging public infra is more akin to an attack on the state (therefore disincentized). But on the other hand, I suspect private interests can be more clever in protecting their investment, beca…

I would assume that this would be considered "critical national infrastructure" and there'll be close cooperation between the private operators and the National Protective Security Authority which a child agency of MI5

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, Denmark has many of the same winds as the UK, so on the exact same days the UK has excess power, Denmark doesn't need power...

But this promote better flow to Norway that has the hydropower, ultimately making more profit to the Energy Companies there. Sell expensive hydro energy when there is no wind, buy cheap wind energy at night when no pnes need it and pump water to the reservoirs. It would be good to see how this cable was lobbied and some estimates in the gain in profit the multinational energy companies are making. Or did everyone thi…

Norway has a lot of hydro, but AFAIK no pumped hydro. I don't know why that is? It sounds like a reasonable idea, to even out the European prices. Perhaps it is not as easy as an armchair consultant would believe? Sweden seems to be in a similar situation.

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of things which are misleading about the quoted CfD strike prices. Firstly they are in 2012 prices. Secondly, they are inflated by CPI every year which means the market prices then lower than a true fixed price would be priced. Thirdly, in all rounds prior to the most recent round, what was granted by govt were actually options to enter into a CfD, so developers were able to walk away and replace C…

I actually meant to say interest rates above but that these strike prices are inflated by CPI isn't really obvious so I'm glad you've mentioned it. Is there anywhere I can read about these arrangements? It would be really interesting to know the true cost per mWh delivered from some of these schemes.

Yes, interest rate rises have made a meaningful difference too via their impact on cost of capital/discount rates/IRRs demanded.

There's a summary at the House of Commons library website here. I hadn't seen it before today but it seems to cover most of the key points I'm aware of (from investing in the UK and European power space for work) and is reasonably concise: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-...

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually meant to say interest rates above but that these strike prices are inflated by CPI isn't really obvious so I'm glad you've mentioned it. Is there anywhere I can read about these arrangements? It would be really interesting to know the true cost per mWh delivered from some of these schemes.

Yes, interest rate rises have made a meaningful difference too via their impact on cost of capital/discount rates/IRRs demanded. There's a summary at the House of Commons library website here. I hadn't seen it before today but it seems to cover most of the key points I'm aware of (from investing in the UK and European power space for work) and is reasonably concise: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-brief…

Thanks for digging that out. I'll take a look at it later.

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#136
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> weighs about 40 kg per meter For reference, a human child weighs about 15 kg per meter. But since humans grow in 3 dimensions, a healthy adult human will be around 40–45 kg per meter, similar to the cable. In our current overweight society, realistic adult humans are of course heavier.

Can you convert that to football fields?

This is the UK so our standard units for populist science writing are "Wembley Stadiums", "Wimbledon Tennis Courts", and "Royal Albert Halls"

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#137
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will lower the peaks of the prices, but at the same time increase the depths. Currently those on market driven tarrifs can sometimes get paid to take electricity, and certainly have low prices. For example Octopus Agile is charging under 5p/kWh from 2230-2300 today, and from 0600-0630 actually paid its customers 4p/kWh With Denmark able to buy 1GW this will increase demand at the cheapest bits (when supply is high…

>For example Octopus Agile is charging under 5p/kWh from 2230-2300 today, and from 0600-0630 actually paid its customers 4p/kWh I understand that, the market is trying to deal with an inefficiency in the system. What I don't understand is how removing those inefficiencies will lead to higher prices. If anything it should do the opposite. The cap is incidental, I don't like it but it doesn't really have much to do wit…

It increased the demand from 2230-2300 (assuming Denmark either has higher demand at that time, or could itself export to Germany)

If the cost in the UK is 5p/unit and in Denmark is 7p/unit, the price will stabilise at 6p/unit as the UK sells to Denmark, decreasing UK supply thus pushing price up

If the cost in the UK is 42p/unit and in Denmark it's 40p/unit, the price will instead by 41p/unit as the UK buys more from Denmark, increasing supply, thus pushing the price down

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this promote better flow to Norway that has the hydropower, ultimately making more profit to the Energy Companies there. Sell expensive hydro energy when there is no wind, buy cheap wind energy at night when no pnes need it and pump water to the reservoirs. It would be good to see how this cable was lobbied and some estimates in the gain in profit the multinational energy companies are making. Or did everyone thi…

Norway has a lot of hydro, but AFAIK no pumped hydro. I don't know why that is? It sounds like a reasonable idea, to even out the European prices. Perhaps it is not as easy as an armchair consultant would believe? Sweden seems to be in a similar situation.

Norway does have a modest amount of pumped hydro: about 1.2 GW.

But inter-connectors are a great alternative to pumped hydro. When the UK and Denmark have an excess of wind energy, it can be sent to Norway. Norway can then conserve water in their storage lakes, and sell it back to the UK and Denmark on days when they need it.

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this promote better flow to Norway that has the hydropower, ultimately making more profit to the Energy Companies there. Sell expensive hydro energy when there is no wind, buy cheap wind energy at night when no pnes need it and pump water to the reservoirs. It would be good to see how this cable was lobbied and some estimates in the gain in profit the multinational energy companies are making. Or did everyone thi…

This shit has ruined the Norwegian electricity market and wrecked havoc on the prices. Norway has an insane amount of hydro which is cheap but the market price has gotten very expensive because of European idiocy and this common market the Europeans are working for. F the entire thing.

Norway benefits greatly by being able to export its excess energy to its neighbours.

Given that much of the hydro power is state-owned in Norway, this generates profits that ultimately benefit the Norwegian people and economy.

Norway got rich exporting its excess oil and gas in the past century. Now they are starting to do the same with clean energy.

Where do you think they’d be today if they’d decided to keep all the oil & gas for themselves and not export any of it?!

Re: UK announces commercial operations of longest land/subsea interconnector

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the reasons why an interconnect might be uni directional? I get that a DC interconnect might only go in one direction at a time, but might it not be able to change such direction that is?

Regulation and tax are big ones. The ElecLink UK/France interconnector was significantly delayed due to disagreements in how it should be regulated and taxed. Similarly, things like the EU Carbon Border Adjustment mechanism have the potential to make it unprofitable to import electricity into the EU without affecting exports (because even significant price discrepancies would be swallowed up by the additional carbon…

I think we've agreed to align with the EU on carbon tax: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-uk-levy-to-level-carb...
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