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PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

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Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#31

Post by adastra22 »

RomanKuzmenko wrote: post #30
adastra22 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working on an MPL-licensed, free forever CAD environment for molecular nanotechnology. It is extremely early, indeed I hesitate to even mention it as it is currently undergoing the final stages of a rewrite to run on a game engine back-end, and it isn't much more than boilerplate at the moment. But we have a small community of people interested in this, and we are currently raising money to support further develo…

I reread the sub-thread and I can see how my attention got carried away from the topic. The maintenance of models might be perceived as an add on to a much more scientific-heavy CAD workflows. The value of engineering tools is not going to go away no matter how data exchange and collaboration tools advance. I hope you find people who can help with the scientific-heavy work that would certainly require funding. Howeve…

We’re looking at various options for code representations of models. Stuff like cadquery is inspirational, but a stronger type system and runtime guarantees are needed. It also ties very closely to version control, as an AST-aware VCS can effectively merge edit histories with visual diffs, and permit editing the history itself. This more resembles the workflow of f-reps than b-reps, but we haven’t made a firm decision on representation.

Having a standard repository of parts is also critical. We are also considering ways that the interface can be made modular and plugin driven such that importing a part into a workspace also imports widgets for instantiating and interacting with that part.

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#32

Post by adastra22 »

RomanKuzmenko wrote: post #29
adastra22 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sub thread isn’t about PartCAD. But on the topic of CAD/CAM systems, there IS value in having a single workflow tool from design to manufacture. Fusion 360 shows how beneficial it can be to have these different aspects of the workflow be seamlessly integrated. There’s no justifiable reason to Balkanize all the CAD tools based on function. Users don’t want that.

Users who want to continue paying for the value of having all tools under one roof can continue doing so. From time to time they might not be opposed to the idea of importing a part or two from a public repository. At least for some simulation tests. They might also find value in using a proprietary private PartCAD repository when they migrate from one all-under-one-roof tool to another after being squeezed dry by th…

So you agree there is value to be had?

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#33

Post by RomanKuzmenko »

adastra22 wrote: post #32
RomanKuzmenko wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users who want to continue paying for the value of having all tools under one roof can continue doing so. From time to time they might not be opposed to the idea of importing a part or two from a public repository. At least for some simulation tests. They might also find value in using a proprietary private PartCAD repository when they migrate from one all-under-one-roof tool to another after being squeezed dry by th…

So you agree there is value to be had?

Of course! There is more than one concept that has value. And each concept also has a price (or price range as there will always be multiple implementations of each concept, each implementation will deteriorate over time and so on and so forth). There will always be more than one class of consumers, more than one set of value/costs preferences. Otherwise we would only have one programming language, wouldn’t we? So acknowledging one concept has value doesn’t mean announcing that it is the only concept worth existing.

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#34

Post by RomanKuzmenko »

adastra22 wrote: post #31
RomanKuzmenko wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reread the sub-thread and I can see how my attention got carried away from the topic. The maintenance of models might be perceived as an add on to a much more scientific-heavy CAD workflows. The value of engineering tools is not going to go away no matter how data exchange and collaboration tools advance. I hope you find people who can help with the scientific-heavy work that would certainly require funding. Howeve…

We’re looking at various options for code representations of models. Stuff like cadquery is inspirational, but a stronger type system and runtime guarantees are needed. It also ties very closely to version control, as an AST-aware VCS can effectively merge edit histories with visual diffs, and permit editing the history itself. This more resembles the workflow of f-reps than b-reps, but we haven’t made a firm decisio…

I wonder myself why would we run third party Python scripts that can do anything, run an infinite loop, download something from Internet or delete files from the home folder, and keep our fingers crossed it calls “show_object” at the end… Have you considered using Java? I mean real classes that implement interfaces you introduce, not classes with a single “main()” method. So you instantiate an instance of that class when you add a part. You can use a handcrafted JVM or Javaagents to ensure that it’s only doing the things you want (like they do on Spark clusters to ensure that ML jobs are only doing ML). Since you are after describing and instantiating objects, why not using something so object oriented?

I want to introduce something like that as an option in PartCAD to see if anyone likes to use it.

Let me know if you want to give PartCAD a try for your model storing/sharing needs. I’ll be happy to customize/extend it for your needs. I always loved chemistry and physics but never had a chance to apply that at work.

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#35

Post by Already__Taken »

MadnessASAP wrote: post #3
mlhpdx wrote: post #2

Mashing up CAD design and software dependency management is something I hadn’t considered, and I’m liking it. Many CAD projects might be described as “derivative works” that embed/extend other works (mold design, wiring, AEC, and the general mechanical assembly). Most CAD apps have “component libraries” but even the best of them are lacking and there is precious little interoperability between them. I miss my days wo…

Having just browsed the Readme it sounds like it could be the missing link between KiCad and FreeCAD. Not that a link doesn't exist now but it's difficult and unpleasant to work with. Being able to near simultaneously work on a design in the 2 programs would be lovely.

linking those and I think a wasm hosted kicad library editor would help the community keep on top of useful models. It seems a lot of the issues with part libraries is curation and trust so everyone builds their own.

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#36

Post by faeranne »

justinclift wrote: post #21
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #8

If anyone is curious I started a discussion forum [1] with the goal of researching possible paths to good quality open source CAD, after an off-hand tweet of mine about open source CAD got significant traction on twitter. Based on what I know so far, it seems that FreeCAD might be finally getting the investment it needs to mature as a real option. There is an organization called Ondsel which is taking on a lot of UI…

Cool, that sounds hopeful. FreeCAD's Assembly workbench mess (aka several competing ones instead of a single blessed one) is why I stopped using it. So if that gets solved it'll be very welcome (by me). :)

Good news on that front, FreeCAD is working on adding an official Assembly workbench as we speak. They added OndselSolver as the core back in november, and seem to be working to add the workbench by the next major version. https://blog.freecad.org is a great place to keep an eye on things.

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#37

Post by adastra22 »

RomanKuzmenko wrote: post #34
adastra22 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re looking at various options for code representations of models. Stuff like cadquery is inspirational, but a stronger type system and runtime guarantees are needed. It also ties very closely to version control, as an AST-aware VCS can effectively merge edit histories with visual diffs, and permit editing the history itself. This more resembles the workflow of f-reps than b-reps, but we haven’t made a firm decisio…

I wonder myself why would we run third party Python scripts that can do anything, run an infinite loop, download something from Internet or delete files from the home folder, and keep our fingers crossed it calls “show_object” at the end… Have you considered using Java? I mean real classes that implement interfaces you introduce, not classes with a single “main()” method. So you instantiate an instance of that class…

Web assembly makes a lot more sense than JVM these days. But I suspect we don’t want something Turing complete.

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#38

Post by RomanKuzmenko »

adastra22 wrote: post #37
RomanKuzmenko wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder myself why would we run third party Python scripts that can do anything, run an infinite loop, download something from Internet or delete files from the home folder, and keep our fingers crossed it calls “show_object” at the end… Have you considered using Java? I mean real classes that implement interfaces you introduce, not classes with a single “main()” method. So you instantiate an instance of that class…

Web assembly makes a lot more sense than JVM these days. But I suspect we don’t want something Turing complete.

Hmm. Indeed that makes a lot of sense to use wasm instead. Let’s table the language aside for a moment. What data format would you expect to be spit out by third-party models? Is there anything generic enough to store both b-reps, f-reps, and whatever might be suitable for nanotechnology?

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#39

Post by hulitu »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #8

If anyone is curious I started a discussion forum [1] with the goal of researching possible paths to good quality open source CAD, after an off-hand tweet of mine about open source CAD got significant traction on twitter. Based on what I know so far, it seems that FreeCAD might be finally getting the investment it needs to mature as a real option. There is an organization called Ondsel which is taking on a lot of UI…

> There is an organization called Ondsel which is taking on a lot of UI and assembly bench improvements,

They don't have any screenshots on their site.

Re: PartCAD the first package manager for CAD models

#40

Post by loliverhennigh »

timschmidt wrote: post #28
RomanKuzmenko wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the link. I’ll definitely study that. I’m not sure at the moment whether NopSCADlib has exactly the same ambitions or not. But it certainly deserves to be learned from. PartCAD has OpenSCAD support pretty high up on the todo list.

Project goals may differ slightly (NopSCADlib evolved somewhat naturally out of building CAD, CAD assemblies, Bills of Material, and assembly instructions for 3D printers) but there is a ton of overlap in functionality.

I think PartCAD would take in packages like NopSCADlib and make them accessible in a unified way along with other part repositories. In that sense the goals of the two projects are orthogonal but complementary. A similar example would be Adafruit, https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CAD_Parts. In fact there are many such repos out their that are very useful but in their own islands.
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