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The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

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Re: The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

#21
The study is garbage.

The metric they're using (average tenure) is not useful for comparing employee retention across companies. E.g. a company that's growing will automatically have a lower average tenure than one that's not growing.

Now, it's understandable why they're using an inappropriate metric. It's the only thing they can even remotely reliably derive from their data set of scraped Linkedin profiles. But when your data is bad, the right thing to do is to just not do the study. Not to write a content marketinb blog post that's so blatantly incorrect that it has to be intentionally dishonest.

Re: The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

#22
post #5

Apple being the least tenured certainly breaks the notion that companies with better public images do better at retaining employees.

I’m not sure about the methodology here… Apple has a huge retail workforce that almost certainly plays a role. ETA: Sort of analogous to Amazon’s warehouse workforce. I couldn’t find it in the source, but I assume they’re only counting people who _have_ left these companies? Otherwise growing companies with a higher percentage of newer employees would be heavily penalized.

Even discounting the warehouse staff, my general impression is that Amazon is one of the harder FAANGs to work at. People I know who went there mostly didn't last terribly long. The few that did stay all got out of the AWS org very quickly..

Re: Apple, I have a similar but less extreme impression of their engineering org.. but don't know anyone there/from there.

Notice for example MSFT doesn't show up as a high churn shop.

Re: The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

#23
post #5

Apple being the least tenured certainly breaks the notion that companies with better public images do better at retaining employees.

I’m not sure about the methodology here… Apple has a huge retail workforce that almost certainly plays a role. ETA: Sort of analogous to Amazon’s warehouse workforce. I couldn’t find it in the source, but I assume they’re only counting people who _have_ left these companies? Otherwise growing companies with a higher percentage of newer employees would be heavily penalized.

Yeah, “growing”, but they’re kind of filtering by growth because they looked at top 100 by market cap

Re: The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

#26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but something fishy about methodology. Wells Fargo & Comcast on the list for high retention?

Maybe old school companies attract old school employees who exhibit old school retention perhaps? Whereas the hottest companies attract employees who are more career and development focused who are more likely to switch every few years? Just guesses though.

Yeah I think high retention is pretty nuanced. I anecdotally know/worked with many blue collar workers who continue to complain about their jobs, have opportunities to swap, and don’t take them.

Re: The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

#27

While I think the data is good, the conclusion of "don't want" is downright silly to me, because if you look at all the top contenders, "don't have any better options" seems like a better interpretation to me. If you work at Apple (company with the shortest tenure), then you likely have tons of other options, and can job hop your way into higher and higher comp. If you work for one of the giant oil companies, where e…

> "don't have any better options" seems like a better interpretation to me.

This is certainly the case for a company like Lockheed Martin. I used to live in an insular area where defense contracting was by far the dominant area of employment; although you could hop from one contractor to another you ended up having a very finite career progression because each of these companies were all competing for the same contracts which all had the same rules regarding how much they can pay employees. Staying at one such company for a decade isn't particularly uncommon because all of the others offer practically the same benefits and pay. Although the government periodically updates these rules they haven't kept pace with the market for some time now. Such downward pressure on wages combined with:

- a conservative technical vision that keeps worker skill sets 5-10 years behind industry

- long production timelines owing to slow, broken security and procurement processes (which are merely replicated in a new form every time somebody tries to introduce a streamlined alternative)

- promotions based on seniority and credentials instead of technical acumen and impact (since this is how the government attempts to objectively measure employee value)

- lack of technical rigor in interview processes (because contractors are incentivized to hire anybody remotely capable due to cost-plus-fixed-fee contracts, i.e. the "bodies in seats" mentality)

...results in employee stagnation and the phenomenon that you see in the article. I don't imagine that it's terribly different for large, entrenched interests like oil and freight companies. These are, after all, mature organizations with workforces many orders of magnitude larger than Dunbar's number with a dizzying number of orthogonal incentive structures spread across layers upon layers of middle management. Avoiding these types of issues at scale is obviously difficult - it's just a fact of life.

Re: The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

#28

While I think the data is good, the conclusion of "don't want" is downright silly to me, because if you look at all the top contenders, "don't have any better options" seems like a better interpretation to me. If you work at Apple (company with the shortest tenure), then you likely have tons of other options, and can job hop your way into higher and higher comp. If you work for one of the giant oil companies, where e…

Average tenure is also significantly a measure of how fast you're growing. My employer has doubled in size over the last three years, so even if literally zero people had ever left the company we'd have a median tenure of three years.

Re: The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

#29
post #21

The study is garbage. The metric they're using (average tenure) is not useful for comparing employee retention across companies. E.g. a company that's growing will automatically have a lower average tenure than one that's not growing. Now, it's understandable why they're using an inappropriate metric. It's the only thing they can even remotely reliably derive from their data set of scraped Linkedin profiles. But when…

> Now, it's understandable why they're using an inappropriate metric. It's the only thing they can even remotely reliably derive from their data set of scraped Linkedin profiles.

I don't think even that is true.

They could do a better metric like "Among the employees that were employed by company X ten years ago, what percentage are still employed there?"

This also solves the "average tenure at a growing company" problem.

Re: The companies employees don't want to leave in 2023

#30
LOL, this is the stupidest list I've seen in a long time. Tech sector being very dynamic and full of alternative opportunities clearly creates the short tenure over there. Whereas relatively stagnant industries with fewer job opportunities tend to score highly regarding longest tenure. Projecting this along the axis of job attractiveness is just plain dumb.
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