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Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

vitalik.eth.limo

51–60 of 70 posts

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#51

> "When the cost of writing to the chain is $0.001, or even $0.1, you could imagine people making all kinds of applications that use blockchains in various ways...." nonsense. plenty of chains do this, but all have the same copy-pasted dapps. ethereum is horrible, cannot die soon enough imo. ETH and BTC maxis are also very toxic community.

Plenty of chains do this... Most of them (the smart contract ones, "ethereum killers" and such, since we are talking about ethereum) use delegated validator schemes and other such marketing speak for "centralized", unfortunately. If the network grinds to a halt because the core dev team disappears it isn't sufficiently decentralized. If a consensus network can be shut down by a small group of individuals it isn't sufficiently decentralized.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#52
Aaah, the ethereum + swarm + whisper infographic, oh I have missed you so.

This criticism he levies at web3 here is the core reason I stopped believing in the vision. I was a big fan of it when ethereum launched mainnet. Mist browser, a reference interface for a truly decentralized internet. The vision: decentralized message transport, file storage and consensus/finality/incentivization for applications that need it. What a beautiful idea.

Instead we got metamask and http websites selling us erc20 tokens.

I think I probably agree that a big part of it is transaction fees. I think though that the Ethereum project abandoning the idea of a reference client left people to develop with the tools they had. There's no money in building a new browser for a different kind of web. There is money in selling DAO tokens to supposedly fund a lock that can be locked and unlocked by sending a cryptographically signed transaction executed on every node on a network and paid for for no good reason to be kept on record forever by everyone on the network. Don't have the decentralized tools to build it? Eh, fuck it, just build a website with pretty animations and flat monochrome icons that fade in and out as you scroll. As long as they can send us ETH we are happy, we will decentralize the rest later when someone else does the heavy lifting.

We needed mist to make this happen. The reason web3 failed is because the only part of it that ever actually worked was ethereum, and that's all that's needed to get people to give you their money. If we had bootstrapped with swarm and whisper them there would've been no excuse from dapp builders why all they have is a regular website, and scams wouldn't have become so prolific because we would have a baseline standard: the whole thing has to be decentralized or you're not getting a dime.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#53

My user name is a reference to one of the hardcore cypherpunk coins https://www.getmonero.org/ They also run the cryptocurrency village at Defcon. Monero researchers have figured out how to do true atomic swaps between Bitcoin and monero, ensuring the exchange delistings will not kill the ultimate privacy coin https://eprint.iacr.org/2020/1126.pdf Finally, the IRS offered a bounty if you could trace XMR. Not claimed…

To a crypto noob like me, XMR is the only crypto that makes sense and I am ever surprised it's not more popular.

It aims for one thing, untraceable payments, and not only seems to do that well, it actually is used to pay for stuff. Granted, most of that stuff is probably illegal, but it seems to work as a currency and not an 'investment' which seems to be the case for most of the other coins.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any possible usecase for crypto if a 100-200$ gas fee during high demand is considered acceptable. You can make anything in the world but if you have transaction fees that high every single time that project will be guaranteed to fail.

L1 (Ethereum Mainnet) fees spike that high, L1 is the highest secure layer of the network and inherently higher price during peak usage. Pick a flavour of L2 of your choice and enjoy cents per transaction. See prices here https://l2fees.info/

L2s are definitely the way. They publish all state, state updates, and proofs of the validity of the state updates on L1. That means they publish all consensus critical data on L1, allowing them to be as secure as any L1 smart contract.

They're not yet production ready though. All use centralized coordinators and failsafes, as a precaution against catastrophic flaws in the smart contracts they have deployed on L1, that could lead billions of dollars worth of digital assets being stolen/lost.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#55

> Having lived through that era, the number one culprit that I would blame as the root cause of this shift is the rise in transaction fees. Haha no, the number one culprit is that 99% of blockchain projects are either scams, bullshit, not actually decentralized, or simply fail despite pulling in vast amounts of funding (sometimes more than one of the above!). However, I do agree that most--if not all--problems in the…

You are right but it is by design. From day one Satoshi had a road map to scale BTC to Visa-like levels while keeping TX fees around a penny. Just incrementally increase the block size over time. Soon after Blockstream's Greg Maxwell and Adam Back hijacked the Bitcoin Core GitHub repo they locked down the block size to 1mb, something Satoshi and the original devs never imagined anyone being dumb enough to do let alon…

Bitcoin is not Ethereum

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#56
post #41
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well what's BTC and what isn't? The bcash people still desperately cling to the r/btc handle for their subreddit.

If you know your history then you should know that r/btc predates the fork by multiple years, and that it existed as an uncensored subreddit and a refuge from r/bitcoin where you got banned simply for voicing an opinion. It still lives on as an uncensored subreddit where all forks of Bitcoin may be discussed.

Yeah but they use it mostly to represent Bitcoin Cash. The history is irrelevant; bcash doesn't stand on its own legs and the misnomer is used to trick people. It's dishonest.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right but it is by design. From day one Satoshi had a road map to scale BTC to Visa-like levels while keeping TX fees around a penny. Just incrementally increase the block size over time. Soon after Blockstream's Greg Maxwell and Adam Back hijacked the Bitcoin Core GitHub repo they locked down the block size to 1mb, something Satoshi and the original devs never imagined anyone being dumb enough to do let alon…

>Bitcoin Cash (BCH) stayed with the road map and has worked great with low fees for over a decade now. BTC twisted itself into a digital ponzi scheme for morons. I believe most people call this bcash.

Most people in the know just call it, Bitcoin.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#58
post #56
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know your history then you should know that r/btc predates the fork by multiple years, and that it existed as an uncensored subreddit and a refuge from r/bitcoin where you got banned simply for voicing an opinion. It still lives on as an uncensored subreddit where all forks of Bitcoin may be discussed.

Yeah but they use it mostly to represent Bitcoin Cash. The history is irrelevant; bcash doesn't stand on its own legs and the misnomer is used to trick people. It's dishonest.

It's so telling when you continue to use the slur "bcash" and accuse others of being dishonest.

And focusing so much on a subreddit that's not tied to the project no more than r/bitcoin is to Bitcoin, while dismissing it's existential reason as "irrelevant", is tiring.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#59

My user name is a reference to one of the hardcore cypherpunk coins https://www.getmonero.org/ They also run the cryptocurrency village at Defcon. Monero researchers have figured out how to do true atomic swaps between Bitcoin and monero, ensuring the exchange delistings will not kill the ultimate privacy coin https://eprint.iacr.org/2020/1126.pdf Finally, the IRS offered a bounty if you could trace XMR. Not claimed…

Okay — sell me on why I should use this coin. (I feel inclined to agree, but I want more solid reasoning.)

You can send/receive monero in private, but that's where the utility ends unfortunately. It can't do all the stuff ethereum is capable of doing.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#60
post #58
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but they use it mostly to represent Bitcoin Cash. The history is irrelevant; bcash doesn't stand on its own legs and the misnomer is used to trick people. It's dishonest.

It's so telling when you continue to use the slur "bcash" and accuse others of being dishonest. And focusing so much on a subreddit that's not tied to the project no more than r/bitcoin is to Bitcoin, while dismissing it's existential reason as "irrelevant", is tiring.

Bcash is not a slur. It is literally what the project is called by everybody except the bcash people trying to trick people into think it is related to bitcoin.
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