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The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

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Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#891

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

soulofmischief wrote: post #883
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also - if what is legal isn't right, we live in a democracy and should change that. Saying what's legal is irrelevant is an odd take. I like living in a place with a rule of law.

Should Harriet Tubman have petitioned her local city council and waited for a referendum before freeing slaves?

Time will tell if comparing slavery to copyright is ridiculous or not.

In the case of slavery - we changed the law.

In the case of copyright - it's older than the Atlantic Slave Trade and still alive and kicking.

It's almost as if one of them is not like the other.

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#892

Post by smoldesu »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #881
insanitybit wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updated how? By what? Who is going out and investigating the world to write about? An AI does not have LEGS it can not go outside and go talk to someone and interview them, it can't attend a press conference without human assistance . You have not at all explained how an AI is going to somehow write a news post about something that has just happened.

Without money there will be no one investigating, there will be no news. If someone creates news it will be immediately ripped off so the only stable state here is no news at all

How is that an AI problem? How is it even a problem in the first place?

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#893

Post by tsimionescu »

fennecbutt wrote: post #872
photonthug wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's ultimately a kind of lossy statistical compression scheme at some level. And on this subject, it seems worthwhile to note that compression has never freed anyone from copyright/piracy considerations before. If I record a movie with a cell phone at a worse quality, that doesn't change things. If a book is copied and stored in some gzipped format where I can only read a page at a time, or only read a random page…

Is it still compression if I read Tolkien and reference similar or exact concepts when writing my own works? Having a magical ring in my book after I've read lord of the rings, is that copyright?

Generally, no, copyright deals with exact expression, not concepts. However, that can include the structure of a work, so if you wrote a book about little people who form a band together with humans and fairies and a mage to destroy a ring of power created by an ancient evil, where the start in their nice home but it gets attacked by the evil lord's knights [...] you may be breaking Tolkien's copyright.

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#894

Post by NemoNobody »

thiht wrote: post #845
logicchains wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All that aside, I tend to agree with the hypothesis that LLMs are a fad that will mostly pass. For professionals, it is really hard to get past hallucinations and the lack of citations. For writers maybe, but absolutely not for programmers, it's incredibly useful. I don't think anyone who's used GPT4 to improve their coding productivity would consider it a fad.

Copilot has been way more useful to me than GPT4. When I describe a complex problem where I want multiple solutions to compare, GPT4 is useless to me. The responses are almost always completely wrong or ignore half of the details I’ve written in the prompt. Or I have to write them with already a response in mind, which kinda defeats why I would use it in the first place. Copilot provides useful autocompletes maybe… 3…

Copilot is amazing. It single handedly returned me to the Microsoft ecosystem and changed the way I use the Internet. Huggingface is another great AI, I've used Githubs a bit, Codium a bit - all of these things are amazing.

This is not a fad, this is the beginning of a world that we can just actually naturally interact to accomplish things we have to be educated on how to accomplish now.

Haha, I love that people can't see the writing on wall - I think this is a bigger invention than the smartphone that I'm typing this on now, fr - just wait and see ;)

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#895

Post by NemoNobody »

cjbprime wrote: post #715
MeImCounting wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I asked it about tcp/ip generally and it provided general resources. Based on the context of my question thats about what one would expect. Its not perfect but it definitely can give urls to specific resources. It would be great if it got better at giving more specific links sure and some domains it can give more specific links than others for instance some git projects it can give precise references to docs whi…

These are not citations. The point is that it does not / can not reliably cite the actual sources it used to prepare an answer.

Yeah ok, cause APA or some academic style is the to cite something professionally.

I'll be sure to tell everyone that uses the Internet

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#896

Post by soulofmischief »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #891
soulofmischief wrote: post #883

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should Harriet Tubman have petitioned her local city council and waited for a referendum before freeing slaves?

Time will tell if comparing slavery to copyright is ridiculous or not. In the case of slavery - we changed the law. In the case of copyright - it's older than the Atlantic Slave Trade and still alive and kicking. It's almost as if one of them is not like the other.

> It's almost as if one of them is not like the other.

Use this newfound insight to take my comment in good faith, as per HN guidelines, and recognize that I am making a generalized analogy about the gap between law and ethics, and not making a direct comparison between copyright and slavery.

Can we get back on topic?

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#897

Post by jjtheblunt »

mbrumlow wrote: post #773
jjtheblunt wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from the Google Terms of Service ( https://policies.google.com/privacy?hl=en-US ), makes me wonder who owns what, since users of Gmail agree to it. "We also collect the content you create, upload, or receive from others when using our services. This includes things like email you write and receive, photos and videos you save, docs and spreadsheets you create, and comments you make on YouTube videos."

Collect does not mean own.

Right. I bet it means "use for language models", though.

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#898

Post by ouraf »

Too little too late, though. The push for AI models trained on synthetic data. A model poisoned with copyrighted material can be tweaked and train its sucessor with the knowledge and meaning of a copyrighted work, but avoiding paraphrasing or other easy giveaways of a copyrighted source

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#899

Post by dinvlad »

graphe wrote: post #763
Jensson wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has the NYT made even a single content creator wealthy? Journalists there make less money than an average software engineer.

It's in the realm of possibility, lots of people found work post vox and buzzfeed too but i wouldn't classify it as the work of the NYT. "Real" creatives and content creators seem to embrace AI or at least grudgingly alter their own works, the OP I'm replying to would be cheering YouTube for suing openAI on the behalf of YouTubers everywhere, despite it having no bearing on reality. The main objectors are the old gua…

Have you been a creator on YT? Do you know how much an average creator gets paid? Did you know that it and other modern platforms like Spotify artificially skew payouts towards the richest brands? If not, then please let’s not make any claims about wealthiness and “old guard” monopolies here.

Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement

#900

Post by dinvlad »

DamnInteresting wrote: post #601

I have deeply mixed feelings about the way LLMs slurp up copyrighted content and regurgitate it as something "new." As a software developer who has dabbled in machine learning, it is exciting to see the field progress. But I am also an author with a large catalog of writings, and my work has been captured by at least one LLM (according to a tool that can allegedly detect these things). Overall, current LLMs remind me…

Very much so. And their popularity has already been on decline for several months, and couldn’t be explained away by kids going on a summer vacation anymore.
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