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Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

vitalik.eth.limo

21–30 of 70 posts

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#21
> "When the cost of writing to the chain is $0.001, or even $0.1, you could imagine people making all kinds of applications that use blockchains in various ways...."

nonsense. plenty of chains do this, but all have the same copy-pasted dapps.

ethereum is horrible, cannot die soon enough imo. ETH and BTC maxis are also very toxic community.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#22
post #16

"Use DEXes plus stablecoins" The trouble is, neither of those make money if run honestly. A true distributed exchange never has custody of anything. So there's no opportunity to steal or speculate with customer funds. (Front-running remains a possibility). It's just a back-end data service. It has to charge a commission. Most crypto exchanges are free to use; they make money either by stealing or manipulation. Much t…

A truly distributed exchange is a protocol and a protocol doesn't really need to make money though. Atleast not in the same way as an exchange needs to. It's only cost is R&D. The users of the protocol pays the fee for both execution and storage, so there is no cost on the exchange side. Ofcourse there is the cost of running a frontend or providing your powerusers easy access to trading data, but that could be a paid service.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#23
post #6
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Non-blockchain decentralization projects are often chronically underfunded, blockchain-based projects get a 50-million dollar series B round. It is not from the benevolence of the staker that we get people to put in their ETH to protect the Ethereum network, but rather from their regard to their own self-interest - and we get $20 billion in economic security as a result.

I think time has demonstrated that some form of (possibly itself centralized to some degree) incentive system can be important for a healthy decentralized ecosystem, but it doesn't necessarily have to be directly monetary: private trackers do pretty well with ratio systems, even through they're not wholly decentralized in the classical sense. I think this has a slightly ironic benefit in practice: by paying out in-ki…

In general I think it’s much more about utility and marketing spend versus convenience. Incentives like rewards are what keeps you a good citizen. Decentralized projects find it hard to achieve critical mass when they rely on personal ideology as the main driver of adoption, particularly in spheres where large centralized alternatives exist.

Trackers and crypto are popular because they offer utility to users that you don’t find in centralized systems. You can even see the popularity of trackers shift as centralized services like Netflix appeared and then got worse. Crypto is all about ‘degen gamblers’ but as a result has oodles of cash, that in turn they’ve been spending hand over fist on marketing to get in more greater fools. The problem for crypto is how to square the utility they provide with the ideological mission whilst still managing to maintain momentum when arguably moving to the latter cannibalizes the former.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#24
post #16

"Use DEXes plus stablecoins" The trouble is, neither of those make money if run honestly. A true distributed exchange never has custody of anything. So there's no opportunity to steal or speculate with customer funds. (Front-running remains a possibility). It's just a back-end data service. It has to charge a commission. Most crypto exchanges are free to use; they make money either by stealing or manipulation. Much t…

How problematic is a 0.3% fee? If the two options were otherwise equal, I think most users would rather pay that than deal with potentially losing their funds altogether due to fraud or insolvency.

For active traders, huge.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#25
post #16

"Use DEXes plus stablecoins" The trouble is, neither of those make money if run honestly. A true distributed exchange never has custody of anything. So there's no opportunity to steal or speculate with customer funds. (Front-running remains a possibility). It's just a back-end data service. It has to charge a commission. Most crypto exchanges are free to use; they make money either by stealing or manipulation. Much t…

A truly distributed exchange is a protocol and a protocol doesn't really need to make money though. Atleast not in the same way as an exchange needs to. It's only cost is R&D. The users of the protocol pays the fee for both execution and storage, so there is no cost on the exchange side. Ofcourse there is the cost of running a frontend or providing your powerusers easy access to trading data, but that could be a paid…

A distributed exchange is a matching service. The trade execution is distributed. But somebody has to maintain the order book and means for distributing and displaying it. When there's a match, something tells two smart contracts to talk to each other and go. The blockchain itself is not a matching engine.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#26
post #16

"Use DEXes plus stablecoins" The trouble is, neither of those make money if run honestly. A true distributed exchange never has custody of anything. So there's no opportunity to steal or speculate with customer funds. (Front-running remains a possibility). It's just a back-end data service. It has to charge a commission. Most crypto exchanges are free to use; they make money either by stealing or manipulation. Much t…

Dexes have existed for years. Uniswap is the largest one with the highest volume. It exists as a set of onchain smart contracts, and thousands of independent liquidity providers set positions within price ranges while an onchain routing system directs swaps between tokens according to deterministic rules. The fee for swaps is configurable by the LPs, and can be anywhere from .01 to 1%, but 0.3% is probably the most common fee charged.

Tether is audited regularly: https://tether.to/en/transparency/#usdt

It would not have survived multiple bear market cycles with tens of billions in redemptions and drawdowns if it wasn't solvent. The last cycle took out plenty of players who truly were insolvent (Luna, FTX, BlockFi, fo name a few).

Circle's reserves for USDC are listed by Blackrock : https://www.blackrock.com/cash/en-us/products/329365/ and provides monthly accounting reports, the most recent issued by Deloitte: https://www.circle.com/en/transparency#transparency

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#27
post #16

"Use DEXes plus stablecoins" The trouble is, neither of those make money if run honestly. A true distributed exchange never has custody of anything. So there's no opportunity to steal or speculate with customer funds. (Front-running remains a possibility). It's just a back-end data service. It has to charge a commission. Most crypto exchanges are free to use; they make money either by stealing or manipulation. Much t…

It doesn't really take anyone to run them, though. At their core, they're just a bunch of smart contracts. The web UI is a) optional and b) can be hosted by anyone, even locally. The bigger problem is that providing liquidity isn't really a good deal in general.

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#28

> Having lived through that era, the number one culprit that I would blame as the root cause of this shift is the rise in transaction fees. Haha no, the number one culprit is that 99% of blockchain projects are either scams, bullshit, not actually decentralized, or simply fail despite pulling in vast amounts of funding (sometimes more than one of the above!). However, I do agree that most--if not all--problems in the…

I don't see any possible usecase for crypto if a 100-200$ gas fee during high demand is considered acceptable. You can make anything in the world but if you have transaction fees that high every single time that project will be guaranteed to fail.

Eh, ransomware payments would tolerate these fees

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#29
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A truly distributed exchange is a protocol and a protocol doesn't really need to make money though. Atleast not in the same way as an exchange needs to. It's only cost is R&D. The users of the protocol pays the fee for both execution and storage, so there is no cost on the exchange side. Ofcourse there is the cost of running a frontend or providing your powerusers easy access to trading data, but that could be a paid…

A distributed exchange is a matching service. The trade execution is distributed. But somebody has to maintain the order book and means for distributing and displaying it. When there's a match, something tells two smart contracts to talk to each other and go. The blockchain itself is not a matching engine.

Decentralized exchanges do not typically run on an order book model. Instead liquidity providers allocate capital in specific price ranges that follow a determininistic price curve ratio and a simple formula is used to rebalance as traders swap between token pairs.

See:

https://medium.com/coinmonks/uniswap-v3-explained-57e0cdf867...

Re: Make Ethereum Cypherpunk Again

#30
post #16

"Use DEXes plus stablecoins" The trouble is, neither of those make money if run honestly. A true distributed exchange never has custody of anything. So there's no opportunity to steal or speculate with customer funds. (Front-running remains a possibility). It's just a back-end data service. It has to charge a commission. Most crypto exchanges are free to use; they make money either by stealing or manipulation. Much t…

Tether just printed another billion dollars worth of Tether. Wait til you learn how much USD is printed.

USD is backed by the value and legitimacy of the world's largest economy and world's largest military. I don't think Tether has that kind of track record...
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