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Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

fda.gov

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Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#361

Post by akira2501 »

growse wrote: post #332
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unfortunately they cannot consent to conditions like "Don't burden the hospital system if you take the wrong dosage". By this logic the FDA would have to ban Tylenol and Robitussin. Tens of thousands of ER visits every year. The government should generally be concerned with preventing deception and coercion and pricing externalities, because otherwise people have the incentive to do them and they would be prolific.…

> By this logic the FDA would have to ban Tylenol and Robitussin. Tens of thousands of ER visits every year. It's almost like there's a balance of harms to be evaluated. I'd bet the cheap availability of paracetamol etc. saves more hospital visits than it causes, but I don't have the data to hand.

> It's almost like there's a balance of harms to be evaluated.

Yes, and I don't trust that the government can generate a one size fits all model that universally reduces harm. They're just not capable of it, and yet they comfortably assert their authority as if they are, and so they act without actually taking any measure of the impact of their own actions.

It's the problem with any agency. Sometimes the best answer is actually "do nothing" or most likely "regulate elsewhere through different authority."

So, I don't think the FDA paying an oversized amount of attention to one retail segment is going to do anything meaningful in the long term and we shouldn't have to pay for their amateur expeditionary efforts here, both in terms of funding the agency, and in allowing them to control markets on their own without any request or complaint process driving their actions.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#362

Post by hunter2_ »

Alupis wrote: post #358
blagie wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my list of things I won't buy on Amazon.com: - Anything which goes in or on my body (foods, medicines, etc.). - Anything which is easily knocked off (SD cards, memory, SSDs, etc.) - Bed sheets (oddly enough, you'll often get lies on materials and fabric) - Thing I need reliably / reliably on-time (I cancelled Prime after several shipping issues) Since I cancelled Prime, things added to this list include: - Mos…

> I'll go Aliexpress, eBay Do you know who sells on Aliexpress, and to a large extent on eBay? The very same shady Chinese/Indian sellers peddling counterfiet products you are seeking to avoid by not shopping on Amazon. Aliexpress was literally set up as a direct-to-US-market Chinese factory marketplace, which results in 99% counterfeit and knock-off products being pushed directly to consumers.

Sure, but it's obvious, unlike Amazon where you get duped. So if you want a real name brand product you shop at none of the above, and if you want cheap junk you go to AliExpress. There's not a large reason to roll the dice on something in between (Amazon) unless you want junk with much faster shipping and streamlined returns (at double the price of AE).

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#363

Post by adrr »

dec0dedab0de wrote: post #43

I don’t think Amazon should have any protections for being a marketplace. Especially since we all found out about co-mingling, and how reviews are transferable between vendors and sometimes between products. They should be liable for any damages caused by these drugs, as well as patent/copyright/trademark infringement for any counterfeit products. I don’t feel the same for ebay, reverb, or facebook. I’m not sure wher…

At minimum Amazon should be banned from co-mingling. Its blatant false advertisement for consumers. If you buy from a trust source like Amazon, your product should come from them. They can't be both a marketplace and retailer with co-mingled inventory, its all the same inventory and should forgo the protections of being a marketplace.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#364

Post by chaxor »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #237
kayodelycaon wrote: post #2

I’m glad the conclusion says the products lists are not the only ones to which this letter applies. Otherwise Amazon could just remove the products mentioned and make the FDA play wack-a-mole. As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This stuff can kill people and it is impossible for the average person to protect themselves.

> As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This isn't what anybody objects to about the FDA. "You have to list what's in the product" is a simple rule that every knows, is easy to comply with, and doesn't require any government interaction even in the case of a suspected violation because the FDA can just buy the product to test it and compare the la…

Listing what is in a product isn't necessarily as easy as one might think.

Certainly if an elemental analysis is required to ensure that the heavy metal content is lower than 1 ppb, it means something like a comprehensive SEM-EDX is required for every single batch. This should be required to avoid things like not noticing the enormous addition of lead chromate into turmeric, but it does require caring a bit about quality, and caring about quality in this way won't occur in a free market economy without some checks.

The examples of this are everywhere, even in things as basic as water. If you ever want to worry yourself, learn a bit about characterization techniques for determining the amount of heavy metals or organic molecules ("forever chemicals") are in water to ppt levels. It's astounding how much different techniques will provide wildly different answers, and it's unclear which method to believe.

When you look closely enough, it can get pretty scary how little we know about what is in our products.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#365

Post by Alupis »

hunter2_ wrote: post #362
Alupis wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll go Aliexpress, eBay Do you know who sells on Aliexpress, and to a large extent on eBay? The very same shady Chinese/Indian sellers peddling counterfiet products you are seeking to avoid by not shopping on Amazon. Aliexpress was literally set up as a direct-to-US-market Chinese factory marketplace, which results in 99% counterfeit and knock-off products being pushed directly to consumers.

Sure, but it's obvious, unlike Amazon where you get duped. So if you want a real name brand product you shop at none of the above, and if you want cheap junk you go to AliExpress. There's not a large reason to roll the dice on something in between (Amazon) unless you want junk with much faster shipping and streamlined returns (at double the price of AE).

It's just super ironic the parent post said they avoid counterfeits and knock-offs by shopping on Aliexpress. Aliexpress is basically counterfeit and knock-off central...

On Amazon, look at who the seller is. If it's Amazon or the actual manufacturer, you'll be fine. For the rest, you need to do some additional research on the seller's business - but it's understandable to not want to do that effort.

With that said, you can't actually lose on Amazon. Just return the item for a full refund and select "not as advertised" as the return reason. You'll get a free pre-paid return label, or drop off at a local store. I've bought plenty of expensive electronics on Amazon without reasonable fear.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#366

Post by macNchz »

thedougd wrote: post #32

Do American grocery stores have better controls or does their broker model just happen to filter the junk?

Grocery stores have buyers who decide which suppliers to work with and select the products they think their customers will want to buy, they don’t let random fly by night businesses just come to the store and put whatever products they want on the shelves, which would be the equivalent of Amazon’s third party sellers where these supplements came from.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#367

Post by morkalork »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #237
kayodelycaon wrote: post #2

I’m glad the conclusion says the products lists are not the only ones to which this letter applies. Otherwise Amazon could just remove the products mentioned and make the FDA play wack-a-mole. As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This stuff can kill people and it is impossible for the average person to protect themselves.

> As a side note, this letter is exactly why I think a regulatory agency like the FDA is absolutely necessary. This isn't what anybody objects to about the FDA. "You have to list what's in the product" is a simple rule that every knows, is easy to comply with, and doesn't require any government interaction even in the case of a suspected violation because the FDA can just buy the product to test it and compare the la…

If the people advocating for this position aren't in favour of full legalization of narcotics they're complete hypocrites. If you want a total free for all of "anything accurately labeled is a-okay, let the consumer weight the risk/reward", then I don't want to hear a peep from the "moral majority" about my vices.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#368

Post by Dalewyn »

serial_dev wrote: post #301
altairprime wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Amazon fails to comply with the auditing requirements imposed by law, their entire retail shipping business could be closed by the US federal government. The FDA need only prove that Amazon has a pattern of negligence in their product auditing duties under law, in order to impose severe penalties, up to and including shuttering Amazon FBA. The FDA is not required to perform inventory assessments as a free service…

I assume it's still a move with lots of politicking involved, so they need to stand on solid grounds, proof and all, I don't think they would every take lightly closing down vone of the biggest companies of the country (and the world). If it ever happened, I can already see the endless coverage by Sean Hannity and similar about how it's governmental overreach that risks destroying an important US company with X thous…

It's a good thing that regulatory actions are slow going and difficult to prove under the law, otherwise the commons would be subject to powertripping leaders above clouds far more than they are already.

It also means that if things do get to such a point, then the action will come down swift and heavy in a manner generally agreeable to the majority of the commons.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#369

Post by junofan »

growse wrote: post #355
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's almost like there's a balance of harms to be evaluated. Which is a highly context-specific evaluation, so is it better decided by the person with the most knowledge of their own circumstances, or across the board with no context at all?

> Which is a highly context-specific evaluation, so is it better decided by the person with the most knowledge of their own circumstances, or across the board with no context at all? It depends on the context. In many, many contexts, people are explicitly not the people with the most knowledge about their circumstances. When I'm crossing a pedestrian foot-bridge, I have much less knowledge about whether this particul…

“Expert” is a bit strong. FDA reviewers aren’t exactly Nature editors. It’s kind of a coast job. Outside of biologics I think you just need a bachelor’s.

Re: Amazon receives FDA warning letter for supplements with undeclared ingredients

#370

Post by BizarroLand »

GuB-42 wrote: post #212
Xeoncross wrote: post #63

I purchased a vitamin c supplement that was pure white and odorless/tasteless. I posted a review and photos. Obviously fake filler of some sort, Amazon removed my review as inaccurate when it's obvious whatever was in those capsules was not ascorbic acid of any kind. They also claimed to have zinc (greenish) and elderberry (purple). It's not safe for Amazon to let any random exporter put stuff for sale without any sa…

Ascorbic acid is cheap in bulk, something like less than $5/kg if you buy it by the ton. Maybe cheap enough to be the filler. And it is white and odorless in its pure form. It does have an acidic taste though, because it is an acid. I have some of it in my kitchen (pure bulk powder, not bought on Amazon) and I can tell you by experience.

Did you get it to make cheese sauce with?
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