Live data from Hacker News

Particle Life

github.com

21–30 of 97 posts

Re: Particle Life

#21
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see not being eaten by a swarm of machines as evidence of anything - but it is interesting to me that you'd qualify all this with "or what stages that life can achieve". So simple life could be extraordinarily commonplace, and considering the context of this post...

It is a fact that we haven't been eaten by a swarm of anything. Facts are evidence. If you don't understand that, I don't think we'll be having a productive or fun converstion. Sound more like you're interested in making innane snarky comments to fuel your own ego. Good luck with that.

Would you like to actually address the point I made about simple life?

Re: Particle Life

#22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One would either have to belive that intelligent life is vastly less likely than non-intelligent life That seems like a valid belief. Getting to a technological stage such that a species would be detectable over the vast distances of space could indeed be quite rare. You have to also consider the temporal aspect: intelligent, technologically advanced species may have evolved several times but gone extinct before we…

> That seems like a valid belief. Its not at all clear in general. It might be true. But it also might not. It seems quite reasonable to believe that life inevitably evolves into intelligent life if given enough time. Why some life would and some life wouldn't isn't at all clear. > advanced species may have evolved several times but gone extinct before we could notice them. All the potential answers to the Fermi Para…

> But it would almost definitely have to be species that never got to the "expand rapidly into other solar systems" phase.

It's certainly not a given that our species will ever do that or that we'll last long enough to do that.

> This doesn't preclude us knowing about that 1.

Let's say we're the 1 currently in the milky way galaxy. There could be another in the closest galaxy the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy which is 25,000 light years away. But being able to detect a signal from 25,000 light years away... well, that's the problem. And what if they're just getting to the point where they could transmit a signal now? So maybe in 25,000 years we'd notice something... maybe? (if we're still around) As far as physically traveling 25,000 ly, well we know that even trying to go 1 ly is going to be super difficult technically. Similar problems even if there's an intelligent species on the other side of our own galaxy since it's 52K ly across.

Re: Particle Life

#23
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason to believe life is particularly rare in the universe either, though.

There are, in fact, reasons to believe that. Nothing definitive of course. But the fact that we haven't been absorbed by a von neumann swarm or something like it places strict limits on the prevalence of life and/or what stages that life can achieve. One would either have to belive that intelligent life is vastly less likely than non-intelligent life, or that life itself is quite rare, or that life simply hasn't been…

There is no evidence that space travel is practical or sustainable. The only viable spaceship known to man is Earth, and we don’t steer it.

Maybe there are lots of earth-like planets with intelligent beings, but travel is impossible and communication is useless given the time delay.

Re: Particle Life

#24

This is fascinating. It's like a more complex game of life than John connoway's. It's crazy that little creatures seem to form at such small scales easily with these parameters. It's almost like the parameters of our real universe intentionally made it difficult to form life, rather than easy as some people seem to think.

They are less creatures than molecules. Now, mind you, as some complex sets of rules approach steady state I can pretend they are far-flung stellar empires with colors ascribed to each type of system of government (and have). What is fooling you is the motion. This is sustained because the system has no conservation principles built in. You can make A-B pairs where B is attracted to A, A is repelled by B, and off the…

need analog computer for that :)

Re: Particle Life

#26
offtopic: I got a new PC for xmas, and hadn't really stress tested it to make sure the fan management curve was correct. Running the linked site's demos made the fans work and they're really responsive. Cool stuff!

Re: Particle Life

#27
post #3

This shows how life is emergent from simple rules.

how does it show it? what is meant by life? are rules necessary or just transitions? what enables rules at all?

A general question by those that support ideas like Intelligent Design seem to focus on the notion of order from randomness. Specifically the natural intuition is that the vast amount of order associated with life could never arise on its own from just randomness. It's encouraging to be able to so quickly demonstrate that in fact order can emerge from chaos. Even if the organelles or molecules or whatever you might consider them in these simulations don't map specifically to organelles or molecules or cells in our world, the general concept is important to understand.

Re: Particle Life

#29
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason to believe life is particularly rare in the universe either, though.

There are, in fact, reasons to believe that. Nothing definitive of course. But the fact that we haven't been absorbed by a von neumann swarm or something like it places strict limits on the prevalence of life and/or what stages that life can achieve. One would either have to belive that intelligent life is vastly less likely than non-intelligent life, or that life itself is quite rare, or that life simply hasn't been…

There are a number of possibilities, which depends upon what methods of interaction we are looking at.

For example, with direct contact, we can estimate a probability of life along side how possible space travel is. Perhaps space travel isn't easy or fast at all and so there is plenty of life, but it is mostly stuck to its solar systems and maybe a few neighboring stars. Overall, given that we can send and receive signals much easier than we can send and receive space crafts, I think this isn't as useful a metric.

The better one is that we don't see signals from other life elsewhere, but this still has to be measured by how likely life elsewhere would be able to see our signals.

Lastly, there is the matter of what it means to be rare. Say only 2 or 3 planets in a given galaxy end up developing intelligent life, is that rare? Given the number of galaxies in the visible universe, that is hundreds of billions if not trillions of planets with intelligent life. Yet with only 2 or 3 in a galaxy, it would be easy for us to not see any signs because maybe we are the only ones in our galaxy or our galactic neighbors are on the other side of the milky way and we have no technology to communicate, nor will we for the near future. Hundreds of billions of intelligent species can be considered both rare and not rare given the sorts of scales we are talking about.

Also other edge cases, like maybe intelligent life is common enough but it tends to rarely progress past a certain point of development due to wiping itself out. Personally, every explanation I've heard or can think of has some sort of unpleasantness to it, much like the quote that says either we are alone or we aren't alone, and both ideas are scary in their own ways.

Post reply on HN