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NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

arstechnica.com

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Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#691

Post by Racing0461 »

jpfr wrote: post #661
andy99 wrote: post #645

I don't think the lawsuit has any merit, but I'd still like to encourage Sam Altman et al, if they really care about the greater good, to go Keyser Söze and immediately release torrents of the weights and source code for GPT-4 under GPL.

AFAIK the IP deal with Microsoft only covers development before AGI . So at any point OpenAI could declare that a sufficient degree of AGI has been achieved and thus return to its philanthropic mission. With GPLed models and all. However, at this point the employees expect a multi-million cash-out for each of them. So the philanthropic mission seems to be gone out the window. And probably that’s also the way Sam Altm…

> OpenAI could declare that a sufficient degree of AGI has been achieved and thus return to its philanthropic mission

The response from MSFT's legal team would be biblical if openai pulled this.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#692

Post by Racing0461 »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #659
andy99 wrote: post #645

I don't think the lawsuit has any merit, but I'd still like to encourage Sam Altman et al, if they really care about the greater good, to go Keyser Söze and immediately release torrents of the weights and source code for GPT-4 under GPL.

> I don't think the lawsuit has any merit The lawsuit fundamentally has merit. It asks a huge open question that no one knows the answer to. The outcome will be extraordinarily impactful. The question must be answered at some point. The case has merit even if NYT loses across the board.

> The question must be answered at some point.

agreed. in the same way Colorado supreme court ruled trump can't be on the ballot to force scotus to rule i think is the same reasoning here. get an answer earlier rather than later.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#693

Post by freejazz »

Robotbeat wrote: post #531
cyborgx7 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine for a human to remember it. It's not fine for a human redistribute it for money (legally speaking). That's copyright infringement.

Correct, just like it’s infringement to reproduce an article from memory using pen and paper intentionally. The person deciding to do that bears responsibility. OpenAI would be liable IFF they were intentionally facilitating that, instead of it being an undesired artifact from overfitting.

That's not true at all. Copyright infringement is a strict liability offense with no inquiry in to the state of the mind of the infringer from a liability perspective. The state of mind of the infringer is only relevant to the issue of willful infringement.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#694

Post by freejazz »

yencabulator wrote: post #656
cyborgx7 wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure if you reproduce a work from memory by accident, because you didn't notice your subconscious had just stored the entire article and is now reproducing it word for word, you'd still be guilty of copyright infringement.

The music business is full of examples of that.

It's super obnoxious when people who have no understanding of the law, point to industry patterns or behaviors as examples of what is legal, not knowing the law and not knowing whether or not the thing they are pointing to is legal. The music business is also full of copyright infringement litigation. You also are not taking into account whether what is copied by an artist is covered by copyright when you made your statement. Do you know what's covered in music copyrights, such that your statement ever had any value for anyone else here?

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#695

Post by [deleted] »

rich_sasha wrote: post #111

If you forget about the LLM aspect, and simply build a product out of (legally) scraped NYT articles, is that fair use? Let's say I host these, offer some indexing on it, and rewrite articles. Something like, summarise all articles on US-UK relationships over past 5 years. I charge money for it, and all I pay NYT is a monthly subscription fee. To keep things simple, let's say I never regurgitate chunks of verbatim NY…

[deleted]

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#696

Post by fuzzfactor »

What if you were one of the people who read the Times from cover-to-cover every day and seriously tries to remember as much as possible because you consider it a trustworthy reference source?

And if you were called upon to solve a problem based on knowledge you consider trustworthy, what would you come up with?

What if you were even specifically directed to utilize only findings gleaned from the Times exclusively?

And what if that was your only lifetime source of information whatsoever for some reason?

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#698

Post by Yizahi »

4RealFreedom wrote: post #441
Yizahi wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I went to a cinema and didn't like the movie, I should be entitled for a return, right? Or if I went into a museum and didn't like the art displayed there? If you are advocating for a free for all libertarian dystopia, well, I have some bad news for you - they never work.

I don't agree with the OP but how are refunds a free for all libertarian dystopia?

"Information can be copied and they should accept it" <- I was referring to this line. This basically means that OP thinks that any intellectual property should be free for everyone. This means that probably half of humanity (who are currently creating anything with IP) will have to be libertarians, and that can't happen unless all humanity are libertarians. And libertarian society is a dystopia. :)

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#699

Post by edgyquant »

Racing0461 wrote: post #691
jpfr wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK the IP deal with Microsoft only covers development before AGI . So at any point OpenAI could declare that a sufficient degree of AGI has been achieved and thus return to its philanthropic mission. With GPLed models and all. However, at this point the employees expect a multi-million cash-out for each of them. So the philanthropic mission seems to be gone out the window. And probably that’s also the way Sam Altm…

> OpenAI could declare that a sufficient degree of AGI has been achieved and thus return to its philanthropic mission The response from MSFT's legal team would be biblical if openai pulled this.

It’s literally in the contract such a distinction is at OpenAIs discretion

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#700

Post by amelius »

rich_sasha wrote: post #111

If you forget about the LLM aspect, and simply build a product out of (legally) scraped NYT articles, is that fair use? Let's say I host these, offer some indexing on it, and rewrite articles. Something like, summarise all articles on US-UK relationships over past 5 years. I charge money for it, and all I pay NYT is a monthly subscription fee. To keep things simple, let's say I never regurgitate chunks of verbatim NY…

> If you forget about the LLM aspect, and simply build a product out of (legally) scraped NYT articles, is that fair use?

That's not a good question.

If I look out of my window and see my neighbor go to the shop, that's fine. If I use cameras and track everybody I see on the street and put them in a database, then that's problematic and illegal in many places.

Logic does not necessarily apply when scaling is involved.

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