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No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

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Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#151

Post by nindalf »

ionyun wrote: post #16
gridder wrote: post #7

This is a 10 year old phone, released in 2014. Edit. I was wrong, 2015, sorry

Apple still sells previous phones as lesser, but still not very affordable, models. The iPhone 7 was released in September 2016 and discontinued in September 2019. It is also on iOS 15.8 so presumably also vulnerable to this. That would be about 4 years of security updates. Not the worst but not beating what e.g. Google promises for Pixel phones now.

> Google promises

While Google promises, Apple actually has a decade long track record of updating older phones for 5 or more years. We don’t know if Google will actually follow through on their promises or the execs in charge in 5 years will feel differently. But I personally bet $1000 that the iPhone 13 will get 5 years of OS updates minimum.

Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#152

Post by izacus »

K0nserv wrote: post #150

Apple, in my opinion, does a very good job of supporting old devices. Buying an iPhone and keeping it for 6 years is a great strategy and when amortising the cost of the phone over those 6 years, it's price competitive with Android. I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device. That would enable old iPhones(and Androids) to have their lifetime extende…

> I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device.

All Google phones allow installation of alternative OSes (and are pretty much the only phones that allow resigning the boot loader so they're still secure - which is why they're chosen by projects like GrapheneOS). Why do you think they need to be forced into anything? You can buy a Pixel right now and run an alternative OS.

Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#154

Post by beeboobaa »

nindalf wrote: post #149
no_time wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bug touches nothing hardware specific. In alternative timeline where mobile OSes arent fisher price parodies of proper operating systems, they could push the same image to all iphones and have a proper hardware abstraction layer take care of the specific details. There is nothing fundamentally incompatible about the last couple of generation of iphones. ARMv8 CPU, PowerVR derived GPU. If the mobile computing spa…

It’s not economical to support devices used by less than 1% of the user base. Linux only manages it because community members step up to support older architectures. And sometimes when no one steps up the architectures are removed. - Linux dropping support for old graphics drivers (Nov 2023) - https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Drop-Old-UMS-DRM-Infra - Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs (Ja…

Shrug. That's their problem. Or it should be, at least.

Don't sell crap you can't support for a decent amount of time. Stop ruining this planet we live on by creating immense amounts of e-waste every few years.

We both know your argument is dishonest or at least naive, though. They could easily support updates if they want to. But it's about money. This way they are forcing people to buy a new phone every few years. It's clever, shame about the planet.

Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#155

Post by K0nserv »

izacus wrote: post #152
K0nserv wrote: post #150

Apple, in my opinion, does a very good job of supporting old devices. Buying an iPhone and keeping it for 6 years is a great strategy and when amortising the cost of the phone over those 6 years, it's price competitive with Android. I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device. That would enable old iPhones(and Androids) to have their lifetime extende…

> I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device. All Google phones allow installation of alternative OSes (and are pretty much the only phones that allow resigning the boot loader so they're still secure - which is why they're chosen by projects like GrapheneOS). Why do you think they need to be forced into anything? You can buy a Pixel right now and r…

Yeah I know some devices already support this, the point of forcing it via legislation would be for those that don't.

I think this is also the answer to "the app store question". It feels unfair to force Apple to change a core value proposition by forcing them to allow side loading, but in the spirit of "It's my device" it should be possible to install an OS that makes a different tradeoff e.g. Android

Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#156

Post by zote »

izacus wrote: post #152
K0nserv wrote: post #150

Apple, in my opinion, does a very good job of supporting old devices. Buying an iPhone and keeping it for 6 years is a great strategy and when amortising the cost of the phone over those 6 years, it's price competitive with Android. I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device. That would enable old iPhones(and Androids) to have their lifetime extende…

> I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device. All Google phones allow installation of alternative OSes (and are pretty much the only phones that allow resigning the boot loader so they're still secure - which is why they're chosen by projects like GrapheneOS). Why do you think they need to be forced into anything? You can buy a Pixel right now and r…

I interpret their comment as suggesting that Apple should adopt a similar approach, and that Google, as a platform owner, should mandate this requirement for licensing Android™ (not AOSP) to other OEMs (I've had several phones whose bootloader couldn't be unlocked), and for this to be a practice enshrined by law for any other such companies that could operate in a similar position.

Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#157

Post by zarzavat »

nindalf wrote: post #149
no_time wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This bug touches nothing hardware specific. In alternative timeline where mobile OSes arent fisher price parodies of proper operating systems, they could push the same image to all iphones and have a proper hardware abstraction layer take care of the specific details. There is nothing fundamentally incompatible about the last couple of generation of iphones. ARMv8 CPU, PowerVR derived GPU. If the mobile computing spa…

It’s not economical to support devices used by less than 1% of the user base. Linux only manages it because community members step up to support older architectures. And sometimes when no one steps up the architectures are removed. - Linux dropping support for old graphics drivers (Nov 2023) - https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Drop-Old-UMS-DRM-Infra - Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs (Ja…

It’s absolutely economical. Apple only has to support a tiny number of devices that they themselves manufactured, they have the easiest job in the world.

Think about how many devices Microsoft has to support in Windows, it’s orders of magnitude more.

Apple doesn’t want to support older devices because they don’t see a benefit to themselves.

5 years of support is pitifully short. Pretty much everything I own lasts longer than 5 years, my phone is one of the things I have to replace most often, not because the hardware is broken, but because it stops receiving updates.

Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#158

Post by youngtaff »

jvdvegt wrote: post #135
albntomat0 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked it up, and the extended security updates for Google Pixel is only a recent change: Pixel 8: released in 2023, updates through 2030 Pixel 5: released in 2020, stopped getting updates in October 2023. https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705?hl=en

Looks like I hit a 'sweet spot' with my Pixel 4a (released in August 2020, guaranteed updates until November 2023)

I use a Pixel 4a as a second phone and consider Google’s approach to be rubbish…

3 years worth of updates is pretty shit… my son’s iPhone 5c got updates for over 5 years (and I think there were some security issues they patched after that even)

At the moment I’ve got a perfectly usable Pixel 4a that I’m going to have to replace as it’s not secure enough for work related stuff anymore

Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#159

Post by blacksoil »

izacus wrote: post #152
K0nserv wrote: post #150

Apple, in my opinion, does a very good job of supporting old devices. Buying an iPhone and keeping it for 6 years is a great strategy and when amortising the cost of the phone over those 6 years, it's price competitive with Android. I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device. That would enable old iPhones(and Androids) to have their lifetime extende…

> I do wish legislators forced Apple and Google to give users a path to install an alternative OS on their device. All Google phones allow installation of alternative OSes (and are pretty much the only phones that allow resigning the boot loader so they're still secure - which is why they're chosen by projects like GrapheneOS). Why do you think they need to be forced into anything? You can buy a Pixel right now and r…

I think the biggest problem is in the alternative OS. Non-official OSes typically are unstable that I personally find not worth the time given phone is quite important piece of communication. As others have already mentioned, certain lines and brands, such as One Plus, Google Pixels, etc have unlockable bootloader so people are free to install custom OSes.

Re: No new iPhone? No secure iOS: Looking at an unfixed iOS vulnerability

#160

Post by traceroute66 »

zarzavat wrote: post #157
nindalf wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not economical to support devices used by less than 1% of the user base. Linux only manages it because community members step up to support older architectures. And sometimes when no one steps up the architectures are removed. - Linux dropping support for old graphics drivers (Nov 2023) - https://www.phoronix.com/news/Linux-Drop-Old-UMS-DRM-Infra - Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping A Bunch Of Old CPUs (Ja…

It’s absolutely economical. Apple only has to support a tiny number of devices that they themselves manufactured, they have the easiest job in the world. Think about how many devices Microsoft has to support in Windows, it’s orders of magnitude more. Apple doesn’t want to support older devices because they don’t see a benefit to themselves. 5 years of support is pitifully short. Pretty much everything I own lasts lon…

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