I wonder how the software devs feel about this at Bloomberg?
Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
81–90 of 231 posts
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#82The author is a CS professor. Does he not enjoy CS or something? I'm not certain what his goal is with this article.
"Finally, those high programmer salaries are actually low, because the same talents (analytical and problem-solving ability, attention to detail) command much more money in other fields, such as law and finance."
This is a tricky one, because it really boils down to "it depends." I can't speak about the law sector, but my limited experience in the financial world speaks to sales guys making oodles more than the analysts or quants. Further, the high salaries come with many more hours, so the per-hour salary of a software engineer would actually be higher.
http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Financial-Analyst-l-New-York,...
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=software+engineer&l1=sun...
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=quant&l1=new+york+city (note that a quant is typically a phd-only position and comes with crazy hours)
http://www.indeed.com/salary?q1=fixed+income+sales&l1=ne...
According to this data I was mistaken about sales vs quants, but I wonder if this factors in bonuses (which would be significant for the latter two)?
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#83So, I'm confused. What percentage of English majors are still in the "English" field by age 40? What is the English field? Outside of academia, it barely exists. Publishing? So, it's laudable to receive a general education which provides one with many opportunities in life? Great, I agree. Now, why shouldn't the same logic apply to a computer science degree? Aren't the ways CS majors learn to think easily transferred…
I am an English major who's over 40 with a love of programming and writing. I've only recently realized that these two passions are not mutually exclusive. Given the latter, I suppose I'm a bit of a slow learner. But on the upside, since discovering this, I'm applying more and more energy toward contributing to open source projects as a writer. I contribute as a programmer when I can, but for many, many projects improving the documentation is where the greatest benefits can be had.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm 36, and you sound exactly like me when I was 31. Same situation, surrounded by a team who was on average 10 years older than myself married with children, working on mostly legacy stuff. Nobody seemed to really care much about their jobs, just wallowing in skill rot. When I was 32/33 or so I was offered to go into management. I turned down that management offer, kicked butt where I could and got promoted to a pri…
Be careful. "Now I have another Rails project lined up for a NYC fashion site that pays about 15% more per hour than my day job" Contracting is vastly different than being an employee. Your employer pays considerably more than 15% more per hour for you (employer portion of taxes, portion of health insurance , etc.) As a contractor you'll be responsible for those expenses.
That 15% is not taking into account base salary (I'm including bonus + 401k matching)... it's more like 25% if you look at it that way ;). And this is a pretty entry level rate... in a year from now I know I'll be able to command at least 50-70% more.
Health insurance can be had for barely more than the cost of fuel I was using in my daily commute, which is $200/mo. Yes, I have to do my own taxes, and yes they'll be a bit more, but as a sole proprietor I can also deduct many expenses. It's pretty much a wash. I firmly believe people make a bigger deal out of this than it is, it's a fear thing.
But this is beside my point, I'm transitioning out from Windows dev, and it doesn't have to be some huge sacrifice like many make it out to be. I have a plethora of full-time work I can take in front of me if I wish, I decided the 1099 route makes more sense for me at this moment in time.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#85This would be dead-on except for he misses a key point: programming is not about programming anymore.
"Programming" in the sense he uses it is a corporate cog working in some huge technology-producing machine. That job? Sure. It leans heavily towards younger workers. Why not? Have you seen the way they treat programmers?
But the general skill of programming is not practiced in that environment much anymore. Today programming is everywhere. It's more like the way cursive writing used to be -- you won't get far without knowing it. Programming is that skill you mix into some other skill to make the whole thing better.
Programming is quickly becoming more of a necessary add-on than an end-point in itself.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#86This whole idea that the wisdom of an older experienced programmer isn't somehow hugely useful mystifies me. I'm at the top of my CS class in the UC system and spending this summer interning at one of the biggest Intenet companies. I'm also very comfortable in C++, Objective-C, Java, and a host of "hot" web languages. With that said, I'm aware I truly "don't know jack" despite being one of the best in my degree progr…
It does happen - I got turned down by startups here in Canada because I'm not experienced enough :)
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#87Statistics show that most software developers are out of the field by age 40. If this is really true then where do they all go? There's only so many seats for managers and architects.
How many 40 year old software programmers could there be the area of science has only been around 40 years.
You really think that the first computer was invented in 1972?
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#88He seems to have missed making the point in the title. Why would software engineers work for english majors? He thinks that a 20 something english major is a better manager for a software engineer than a 40 something software engineer? Plus he seems to completely miss a separate alternative for software engineers over 35-- start their own businesses. I think the perception that 40 year olds are not up to date on tech…
"Why would software engineers work for english majors?"
Maybe it's just me, but I've "worked for" several English majors. OK, perhaps they weren't my direct boss, but I've been on many projects managed by Project Managers with degrees in areas like English and History. (IMO, whoever is managing your project is the person you're "working for").
And I didn't "choose" to work for these guys. Usually I go through a technical interview, then get assigned to a project whose PM is a non-technical person.
Perhaps this is unusual at places like Google, MS, etc. But outside of those types of companies, it's not unusual at all in my experience.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#89This guy is so off the radar it is a wonder why he is allowed to publish this stuff.
I will just add two points.
1) Facebook, Google, and other silicon valley companies are far from the norm of software development jobs. There are far more jobs in finance, retail, and travel for engineers than the type of position he is describing.
2) Most directors, executive directors and VPs I have worked for started their careers as software engineers as a matter of fact engineering is how they developed the business knowledge to become executives.
Re: Software Engineers Will Work One Day For English Majors
#90> the very term “coding” evokes an image of tedium,
Wow, really? Is that what non-coders think coding is? Do people really think "coding" is non creative?