NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances • Hacker News Board

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#21

Post by greggsy » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:08 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #19

biglyburrito wrote: post #2

TLDR: "The suit seeks nothing less than the erasure of both any GPT instances that the parties have trained using material from the Times, as well as the destruction of the datasets that were used for the training. It also asks for a permanent injunction to prevent similar conduct in the future. The Times also wants money, lots and lots of money: "statutory damages, compensatory damages, restitution, disgorgement, an…

This is what lawyers are paid for. They ask for the max because there’s no harm in doing so. Everyone knows there’s little meaning to that.

They always go for the max, knowing that they will settle somewhere closer to the expected rate.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#22

Post by weikju » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:08 AM UTC

suby wrote: post #13

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow they want to kill it. I wonder if we've just lived through the golden Napster era of LLMs.

They may just want a licensing deal.

They're already working on it with Apple (see my other reply in this discussion), so I wouldn't doubt that this is another salvo in the same battle.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#23

Post by product-render » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:08 AM UTC

thallium205 wrote: post #15

outside1234 wrote: post #4

Seems reasonable - they probably broke the TOS of the site

What if they OCR’d the newspapers? No ToS there.

It's at least partially a copyright claim, isn't it? So the method -- OCR or scraping -- doesn't matter, I think.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#24

Post by cycrutchfield » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:11 AM UTC

I read a NYT article and publish a summary of facts that I learned: totally legit.

Train a model on NYT text that outputs a summary of facts that it learned: OMG literally murder.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#25

Post by aurareturn » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:12 AM UTC

Companies that have content all see dollar signs.

NYT won't mind if you use their content to train LLMs - as long as they get a commission. Reddit will shut down their free API and make you pay to get training content. Discord is going to be selling content for AI training too - if they haven't already done so. Twitter is doing it.

They didn't care before because LLMs were just experiments. Now we're talking trillions of dollars of value.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#26

Post by fasterik » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:13 AM UTC

I've been arguing since ChatGPT came out that LLMs should fall under fair use as a "transformative work". I'm not a lawyer and this is just my non-expert opinion, but it will be interesting to see what the legal system has to say about this.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#27

Post by MuffinFlavored » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:18 AM UTC

aurareturn wrote: post #25

Companies that have content all see dollar signs. NYT won't mind if you use their content to train LLMs - as long as they get a commission. Reddit will shut down their free API and make you pay to get training content. Discord is going to be selling content for AI training too - if they haven't already done so. Twitter is doing it. They didn't care before because LLMs were just experiments. Now we're talking trillion…

> They didn't care before because LLMs were just experiments. Now we're talking trillions of dollars of value.

Can you make the argument this was their fault for not having forward vision/being asleep at the wheel and "accidentally, in hindsight" letting OpenAI/others have free, open, unlimited access to their content?

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#28

Post by steve1977 » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:21 AM UTC

thallium205 wrote: post #15

outside1234 wrote: post #4

Seems reasonable - they probably broke the TOS of the site

What if they OCR’d the newspapers? No ToS there.

I’m pretty sure there is still a copyright also for the physical newspaper.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#29

Post by mynegation » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:26 AM UTC

fasterik wrote: post #26

I've been arguing since ChatGPT came out that LLMs should fall under fair use as a "transformative work". I'm not a lawyer and this is just my non-expert opinion, but it will be interesting to see what the legal system has to say about this.

Suit claims that GPT reproduced passages from NYT almost verbatim.

Re: NY Times copyright suit wants OpenAI to delete all GPT instances

#30

Post by up2isomorphism » Thu, Dec 28, 2023, 6:27 AM UTC

aurareturn wrote: post #25

Companies that have content all see dollar signs. NYT won't mind if you use their content to train LLMs - as long as they get a commission. Reddit will shut down their free API and make you pay to get training content. Discord is going to be selling content for AI training too - if they haven't already done so. Twitter is doing it. They didn't care before because LLMs were just experiments. Now we're talking trillion…

"They" also include the people working there. Why someone work with full time writing articles should give the work for free just let someone to train it and make money out of it as a consequence?