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Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

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Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#211

Post by int_19h »

acdha wrote: post #65
r3trohack3r wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why this would be a tax? If you’re going to go down this path, why wouldn’t you just require that the title needs to be purchasable on a primary market and usable on hardware/software that is currently supported in order for a copyright to be enforceable. If I can’t purchase and enjoy a copyrighted work legally, the copyright is unenforceable. In response to sibling comments, I don’t know why you’d do a…

Because taxes are how we typically set incentives and the government is well-configured to use them. This is common in other contexts: for example, in many cities leaving your property vacant will trigger additional taxes because they don’t want empty buildings impacting the surrounding neighborhoods. > If I can’t purchase and enjoy a copyrighted work legally, the copyright is unenforceable. That’s not true in the Un…

OP is saying that this is how things should be, not how things are.

The government is well-configured to use copyright as a stick, too. Literally the only reason why copyright - an artificially imposed monopoly - works at all is because the government enforces it, and so it gets to set the terms for eligibility. The legal mechanism here would be a new law, same as your tax proposal, so I fail to see the difference.

As far as needing servers to continue running - the community is generally quite capable of doing that so long as there are no legal roadblocks to it like DMCA and CFAA. It is likely to provide a better experience too, compared to what would essentially be compelled support from the original developer, which is virtually guaranteed to be the least they can get away with to legally dodge the tax - e.g. spinning up one underpowered server that can only serve very few users at a time.

It is also unclear how such compelled services would interact with game updates. Is the server required to support all past versions of the game going all the way back to the original release? For competitive multiplayer games especially this may not feasible for good reasons. OTOH if you only require that they support the most recent update, this opens the possibility of the developer simply shipping an "update" that disables as many features as they can get away with once the game is on life support - e.g. removing multiplayer entirely if possible, or at least making it as crippled as they can get away with; and then providing support only for that crippled version.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#212

Post by int_19h »

Affric wrote: post #61
r3trohack3r wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know why this would be a tax? If you’re going to go down this path, why wouldn’t you just require that the title needs to be purchasable on a primary market and usable on hardware/software that is currently supported in order for a copyright to be enforceable. If I can’t purchase and enjoy a copyrighted work legally, the copyright is unenforceable. In response to sibling comments, I don’t know why you’d do a…

Artificial scarcity is a scourge but I think for some works, say where you only want them to be available in a specific time and place, then perhaps as the author of that work you have a right to enforce that, at least to the extent that others shouldn’t be able to say record a live performance and then sell it with some kind of rights later. All that is to say I think it’s slightly more complex than what can be cont…

This sounds like a feature rather than a bug to me, to be honest. If there's an official recording of said live public performance that is available, then copyright holds and third parties wouldn't be able to record and redistribute. OTOH if there is no official recording available, then I would argue that it is in the public interest to allow third party recordings to legally circulate, since otherwise that particular performance would just be lost altogether.

If artists truly want their performance to be "in the moment" with no way for anyone else to see it, they can arrange for private performances where the audience can be bound by a contract above and beyond basic copyright; but I don't think we should be optimizing for this case.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#213

Post by hbn »

fluoridation wrote: post #171
averageRoyalty wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steam is still a walled garden that can arbitrarily take away games at any time they want. Everyone who sells via Steam (including Valve) can and do sometimes turn off online services. Your garden might be wider, but there's still walls.

You can still back the games up, if necessary on external drives. If they have DRM it can be cracked. None of this is is possible on consoles (or if it is I've never heard of it).

Many consoles have had their DRM cracked, some easier than others. I believe the Xbox 360 still requires soldering in a modchip, but the 3DS for example can be cracked easily and safely by loading some files onto an SD card and following a few steps.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#214

Post by hbn »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #26
jaylittle wrote: post #23

This is one reason I'm over and done with proprietary consoles. So tired of shitty company's like Nintendo being able to call any kind of shot. They may still know how to make fun games and do that on accessible and reasonably priced hardware, but beyond that they are an objectionable and ass-backward company on so many levels. I vote with my dollar. I vote against Nintendo.

Consoles are not the only place where this is happening. More PC games are requiring always-online access even for singleplayer content. User experience be damned. I just had to refrain from a Steam purchase because I saw that it requires the Origin launcher, an EA account, and is always online. For a singleplayer game. Madness.

I remember when SimCity 2013 launched and caused a massive controversy because it required a constant online connection in order to play the game. The Xbox One also had to do calls home every few days to allow you to play games you purchased before Microsoft backtracked when it caused bad PR for them.

It only took a decade but now this stuff is just common practice and nobody cares about paying $100 for digital purchases that will be ripped away from them when some server is shut down in a few years.

Honestly, physical games are kind of a bust at this point too. Many games are shipped with incomplete versions of the game on the disc, and you're required to download some of, if not majority of the game when you insert it. Hell, some games are sold in physical cases but you open them up and instead of getting a disc/cartridge you get a piece of paper with a download code.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#215

Post by Affric »

int_19h wrote: post #212
Affric wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Artificial scarcity is a scourge but I think for some works, say where you only want them to be available in a specific time and place, then perhaps as the author of that work you have a right to enforce that, at least to the extent that others shouldn’t be able to say record a live performance and then sell it with some kind of rights later. All that is to say I think it’s slightly more complex than what can be cont…

This sounds like a feature rather than a bug to me, to be honest. If there's an official recording of said live public performance that is available, then copyright holds and third parties wouldn't be able to record and redistribute. OTOH if there is no official recording available, then I would argue that it is in the public interest to allow third party recordings to legally circulate, since otherwise that particul…

I don’t disagree.

I am attempting to say a person shouldn’t be able to record someone else’s performance and distribute it for profit or post it on a streaming service and profit from the ads.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#216

Post by fluoridation »

hbn wrote: post #213
fluoridation wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can still back the games up, if necessary on external drives. If they have DRM it can be cracked. None of this is is possible on consoles (or if it is I've never heard of it).

Many consoles have had their DRM cracked, some easier than others. I believe the Xbox 360 still requires soldering in a modchip, but the 3DS for example can be cracked easily and safely by loading some files onto an SD card and following a few steps.

As time goes on and console hardware becomes increasingly integrated, it'll become harder and harder to do hardware bypasses. As for the 3DS, that was pure luck caused by shitty system design, that allowed application bugs to cause ACE. There's no comparison with a platform that the user has direct and complete control over.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#217

Post by hadlock »

mikepurvis wrote: post #103
hadlock wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of support for 3DS and (probably) switch means I am moving over to the Steam Deck for my next console, probably early next year. Losing my entire switch library, basically forever, when the Switch 2 (or whatever they call it) is released seems like throwing good money after bad.

Nintendo has been getting greedy in recent years with the paid rereleases and HD ports. However they had a terrific track record on backcompat for years in the handheld space. GB -> GBC -> GBA -> DS -> 3DS, every one supporting at least one generation back's physical media. Nintendo understands the value of the Switch library and I think would be very cautious to release successor hardware that didn't play the existi…

I'm not sure I bought a single physical release on switch since I bought the console in 2019
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