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Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

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Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#51
post #40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's a difference in perspectives, because in your lists I definitely see things that help society: - Government provides services. Around here, it's healthcare, schools, universities, infrastructure, defense, a justice system, social services, plain governing, etc. - The weapons industry might be an ethical negative, but they provide benefit to society in terms of basic research and R&D (not saying other thi…

"The weapons industry might be an ethical negative, but they provide benefit to society in terms of basic research and R&D (not saying other things couldn't replace this -- I'm saying right now they provide this value)" Actually this is another example of a rich person talking about how it's not about the money. You think weapons are intrinsically unethical, go and talk to the hundreds of millions of unarmed "ethnica…

Rich is of course relative here, but for your argument I assume you mean a middle class person in a stable, western socitety with a couchy job? :)

Note that I say that they might be an ethical negative, not that they are intrinsically unethical. But I believe for example that when Sweden exports weapons via middle men to Libya or Iran, that's a net negative. Also, boiling down the existence and services of "all of those beloved government institutions" to national defense seems very simplistic. Right now, there are a ton of factors beyond missiles standing between me and foreign incursion.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#52
I can't find the quote, but I think it was Dave Ramsey who said (says?) something like "You can't help others from a position of weakness". Broadly true, although even moreso from a financial point of view, and one which guides much of my views on money/work/business.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#53
post #41
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what a lot of people who say that mean by it is that to be successful, your primary focus doesn't have to be about making money. For many successful, people becoming wealthy is a (usually intentional) side effect of building a good business. Conversely, people who primarily focus on making as much money as possible are susceptible to making mistakes such as scrimping on necessary expenses, or sacrificing rela…

I think what a lot of people who say that mean by it is that to be successful, your primary focus doesn't have to be about making money. I agree - if all you care about is money, you won't become successful. You'll probably become rich, though. For many successful, people becoming wealthy is a (usually intentional) side effect of building a good business. But a good business is one that makes money (apart from the in…

While reading this, I was reminded of the following excerpt of Makers by Cory Doctorow (which, btw, is absolutely one of the best books to read if you're into tech startups):

> “What? I thought you’d be happy about this.”

> “I am,” Perry said. “But you’re misunderstanding something. These aren’t meant to be profitable businesses. I’m done with that. These are art, or community, or something. They’re museums. Lester calls them wunderkammers—cabinets of wonders. There’s no franchising op the way you’re talking about it. It’s ad hoc. It’s a protocol we all agree on, not a business arrangement.”

> Tjan grunted. “I don’t think I understand the difference between a agreed-upon protocol and a business arrangement.” He held up his hand to fend off Perry’s next remark. “But it doesn’t matter. You can let people have the franchise for free. You can claim that you’re not letting anyone have anything, that they’re letting themselves in for their franchise. It doesn’t matter to me.

> “But Perry, here’s something you’re going to have to understand: it’s going to be nearly impossible not to make a business out of this. Businesses are great structures for managing big projects. It’s like trying to develop the ability to walk without developing a skeleton. Once in a blue moon, you get an octopus, but for the most part, you get skeletons. Skeletons are good shit.”

> “Tjan, I want you to come on board to help me create an octopus,” Perry said.

> “I can try,” Tjan said, “but it won’t be easy. When you do cool stuff, you end up making money.”

> “Fine,” Perry said. “Make money. But keep it to a minimum, OK?”

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#54
The article does not say want to make money at any cost. It just says want to make money. I want to make money doing things I love. For any job I am willing to do, I want to make sure my pay is as high as possible, for that job.

Lots of people saying how many jobs does not add value to society, and so people who want to make money are evil. That's not what the article is talking about! If you want to make money and don't want to do those jobs, then make money through other means!

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#55
It's ok to want to be rich, but wanting something you won't get is unplesant, so people often rationalize they are there just for fun.

Certainly for me it works that way - if it's hobby project, I can't fail at it. If it's business I do to be rich, and I'm not rich in 5 years, I've failed.

Having fun seems to be easier to achieve than commercial success, and for some people (like me) it's easier to do sth, if it seems achievable.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#56
post #53
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what a lot of people who say that mean by it is that to be successful, your primary focus doesn't have to be about making money. I agree - if all you care about is money, you won't become successful. You'll probably become rich, though. For many successful, people becoming wealthy is a (usually intentional) side effect of building a good business. But a good business is one that makes money (apart from the in…

While reading this, I was reminded of the following excerpt of Makers by Cory Doctorow (which, btw, is absolutely one of the best books to read if you're into tech startups): > “What? I thought you’d be happy about this.” > “I am,” Perry said. “But you’re misunderstanding something. These aren’t meant to be profitable businesses. I’m done with that. These are art, or community, or something. They’re museums. Lester c…

Nice, but as most people who make cool stuff will attest, making money is a mostly orthogonal activity...

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#57
It depends on what you want to make that money for. To live a stress-free, comfortable, happy life and help your community/world in return with that money? Or to just spend all of that money on yourself in expensive cars, big houses and drugs. It all depends on what you use the money for...

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#58
post #42

Money making is fine, but wanting billions is kind of weird imho. The goal of 'being the biggest search engine' is great, being a search engine and having the goal to make 10 billion $/month is not. Again, in my opinion. He mentions 'feed the family'; no matter what your 'family' is here, with honest hard work you can do that without having too much money focus in your company. But yes, the bottom line needs to be so…

But yes, the bottom line needs to be solid and you are insane if you don't watch that like a hawk. Looking at the average startup, it seems like insanity is the rule rather than the exception...

Yeah that's what worries me when reading all the stories here; it seems that we shouldn't care about the bottomline in startup mode. In my, maybe old, mindset, I try to break even as fast as we can and THEN start growing.

I see a lot of exceptions where this way of company startup would not work, but a lot of them should do it this way imho. The funding => jumping too high method is too much slot machine for me. Especially if you are not doing consumer services/products, it is almost always possible, if your idea has merit, to run a profit even before you built anything. Then funding is a much safer bet.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#59

Perhaps it's wrong place to ask, but ... Does anyone have an idea how to get this "hunger for money"? I get no pleasure from earning money and almost no pleasure from things I can buy. I find it hard to motivate myself to get rich despite the fact that I consciously know that it could make my life bit easier.

Why would you want it?

I'd suggest if having more money doesn't motivate you then the difference between your life now and this hypothetical life you might have isn't that great.

Lots of people are motivated to make money for different reasons, some good, some bad but if you're not one of them you're better off focusing on the things that do make you happy.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#60
Answer: yes, sure. It's far more honorable to want to be wealthy than, for example, to vie for social status or power over other people. I want to be wealthy; I wish everyone were.

I feel like I'm an old (28) knight, having learned the hard way that people are not honorable. For the record, I've seen more disgusting behavior in supposedly "world-changing" startups than many people see in their lives, and far more than I saw in finance, which is supposed to be unethical and full of greed but (quite honestly) doesn't look very different from anywhere else. The most ethical of the 5 companies where I've worked was in finance.

First, it's not about what you want, it's about what you do. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have money. You should want to have money if you're smart. Why? Because money is a vote and the World's First Problem is that most decisions aren't being made my smart or competent people. So get out there, do great work, and see if you can make a mark. You're only doing wrong if you start making moral compromises to get money or influence. If you turn unethical, then you become part of the more severe World's Second Problem, which is that the few genuinely smart people in positions of power and influence are generally unethical.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to have financial freedom and autonomy. If you don't have these things, chances are that your life will amount to very little. That's not the same thing as wanting to be a billionaire, though. If your net worth is $3 billion and you're trying to get to $6B to show up that other guy, then your motives are probably not good.

Social climbers I find pretty revolting, but the desire to do good work and be well paid for it is, I've come to realize, honorable.

Now, bad people do slimy things for all kinds of reasons, and often those reasons have little to do with material gain. Sometimes it's status or vengeance, and sometimes it's just a desire "to see what happens". Malevolent curiosity is a powerful motivator having nothing to do with money or measurable personal benefit. Again, it's not peoples' motivations that make them bad or good. It's what they actually do.

I spent a lot of time trying to figure out why I encountered far more sleaze in VC-funded startups than in finance, and I think I figured it out. False poverty. Now, I'd he hard-pressed to call a startup CEO making $150,000 per year "poor", but a lot of these people feel poor, given that a 27-year-old venture capitalist with no accomplishments to his name is making twice that, just because his daddy got him into Harvard Business School. When people get a sense that they "should" be doing so much better (being VCs instead of being founders with their hands out) they feel poor, they feel desperate, and they act desperate.

Finance has its share of slime, for sure, but the false poverty is less prevalent. Bankers know they aren't poor and that they're not allowed to act that way.

This might also explain why the politics and in-fighting in low-paying but "glamorous" industries like fashion and UES nonprofitistan are so much worse. Because these people are paid poorly, they have a sense of living on a precipice and will do anything to avoid falling off. Although this is also a false poverty (because most of these people could change industries and do OK) it has the same effect.

The conclusion of all this should be the obvious one. Greed isn't good, but hunger is worse.

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