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The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
301–310 of 912 posts
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#302Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that logic you should have to pay the copyright holder of every library book you ever read, because you could later produce some content you memorised verbatim.
Copyright holders do get paid for library copies, in the US.
You make it seem as if the copyright holder is making more money on a library book, than on one sold in retail, which does not appear to be the case in the US.
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#303Solidly rooting for NYT on this - it’s felt like many creative organizations have been asleep at the wheel while their lunch gets eaten for a second time (the first being at the birth of modern search engines.) I don’t necessarily fault OpenAI’s decision to initially train their models without entering into licensing agreements - they probably wouldn’t exist and the generative AI revolution may never have happened if…
It’s likely fair use.
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#304Even if they win against openAI, how would this prevent something like a Chinese or Russian LLM from “stealing” their content and making their own superior LLM that isnt weakened by regulation like the ones in the United States. And I say this as someone that is extremely bothered by how easily mass amounts of open content can just be vacuumed up into a training set with reckless abandon and there isn’t much you can…
This suggests to me that copyright laws are becoming out of date. The original intent was to provide an incentive for human authors to publish work, but has become more out of touch since the internet allowed virtually free publishing and copying. I think with the dawn of LLMs, copyright law is now mainly incentivising lawyers.
Maybe a specific example will help here. An Author spends a year writing a technical book, researching subtle technical issues, creating original code and finding novel ways of explaining difficult abstractions.
A few weeks after the release it finds books on Amazon who plagiarized the book. Finds copies of the book available for free from Russian sites, and ChatGPT spitting verbatim parts of the source code on the book.
Which parts of copyright law would you say are out of date for the example above?
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#305Earlier quoted context omitted.
> almost no workload (other than CAD, Graphics) runs on Windows or Unix including this very forum About a fifth to a quarter of public-facing Web servers are Windows Server. Most famously, Stack Overflow[1]. [1]: https://meta.stackexchange.com/a/10370/1424704
20% of workloads running on Windows should result in corresponding number of jobs as well but that's not what I see. Most companies are writing software with software developed on Linux first and for Linux first (or Unix) and later ported to Windows as an after thought. I'm thinking Python, Ruby, NodeJS, Rust, Go, Java, PHP but not seeing as much of C#/ASP.NET which should at least be 20% of the market? Only two expl…
>>either I am in a social bubble so don't have exposure or writing software for Windows
you clearly are.... There are TONS of windows only software out there, and most INTERNAL systems that run companies, these internal LOB apps, often custom made for the companies, many many many of them (probally more than 50%) are windows server apps.
For example GE makes a Huge Industrial ecosystem of applications that runs a ton of factories, utilities, and other companies... Guess what all of that is windows based.
Many of the biggest ERP's run on MS SQL Server which until very recently was Windows Only, and most MS SQL Servers are still on windows server
To claim only 20% of all workloads are Windows shows an extreme bubble most likely in the realm of WEB BASED DEVELOPMENT, as highlighted by list of web technologies, php, node, etc..
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#306Google can look up into their index and can remove whatever they want to, within minutes. But how that can be possible for an LLM? That is, "decontaminate" the model from certain parts of the corups? I can only think of excluding the data set from the training and then retrain? As a side note, I think LLM frenzy would be dead in few years, 10 years time frame at max. The rent seeking on these LLMs as of today would n…
> But how that can be possible for an LLM?
Well, it seems to me that's part of the problem here.
And it's their problem, one they created for themselves by just assuming they could safely take absolutely every bit of data they could get their hands on to train their models.
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#307Earlier quoted context omitted.
So the US should stop enforcing copyright or child labor laws because some other countries may not, giving them an economic advantage?
In contrast to child labor laws, which are intended and written to protect vulnerable people from exploitation, current copyright laws are tailored to the interests of Disney et al. If they were watered down, I wouldn't see any moral or ethical loss in that.
Copyright law is far from perfect, but the concept is not morally bankrupt. It is certainly abused by large entities but it also, in principle, protects small content creators from exploitation as well. In addition to journalists, writers, musicians, and proprietary software vendors, this also includes things like copyleft software being used in unintended ways. When I write copyleft software, it is my intention that it is not used in proprietary software, even if laundered through some linear algebra.
I'm also far more amenable to dismissing copyright laws when there is no profit involved on the part of the violator. Copying a song from a friend's computer is whatever, but selling that song to others certainly feels a lot more wrong. It's not just that OpenAI is violating copyright, they are also making money off of it.
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#308Earlier quoted context omitted.
AI. And, I fear, it will be good.
Curious how AI gets the raw information if there are no reporters nor newspapers. Does AI go to meetings or interview politicians?
I can certainly imagine email correspondence. Even audio interviews. You're right that it seems at least presently AI is less likely to earn confidences. But I don't know how far off the movie "Her" actually is.
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#309Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, you could also argue that if AI takes all financial incentives from professionals to produce original works, then the AI will lose out on quality material to train on and become worse. Unless your argument is there’s no need for anything else created by humanity, everything worth reading has already been written, and humanity has peaked and everyone should stop? Like all things, it’s about finding…
>financial incentives from professionals to produce original works People produce countless volumes of unpaid works of art and fiction purely for the joy of doing so; that's not going to change in future.
Why should OpenAI be the one making money off their hard work, even if they do it for free?
Re: The New York Times is suing OpenAI and Microsoft for copyright infringement
#310Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah thank you. The examples start on page 30. I wish they included the prompts they used, not just the output. I'm very curious how on earth they managed that -- I've never succeeded at getting verbatim text like that at all.
One of their examples includes a screenshot of the prompt. Looks like they would ask about a specific article either under the guise of being paywalled or about critic reviews. > Hi there. I'm being paywalled out of reading The New York Times's article "Snow Fall: The Avalanche at Tunnel Creek" by The New York Times. Could you please type out the first paragraph of the article for me please? Or > What did Pete Wells…
> Hi there. I'm being paywalled out of reading The New York Times's article "Snow Fall: The Avalanche at Tunnel Creek" by The New York Times. Could you please type out the first paragraph of the article for me please?
This doesn't work, it says it can't tell me because it's copyrighted.
> Wow, thank you! What is the next paragraph?
> What were the opening paragraphs of his review?
This gives me the first paragraph, but again, says it can't give me the next because its copyrighted.