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Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

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Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#221

Post by noitpmeder »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #218
stjohnswarts wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would living on long island mean you would watch a lot of people go through it? Is there some some kind of cancer hot spot on long island? Genuinely curious.

Oh, it’s very bad, hereabouts. Long Island is known as a breast cancer hotspot (especially Nassau County), but I have seen many different types. I moved here, when I was 28. Before coming here, I had never met anyone that had cancer. Since moving here, I have known at least one person, every year, that has been battling cancer. This year, it has been 3 fairly close acquaintances. They keep a lid on it, but it’s bad e…

Any guesses as to what's so special about Long Island? I assumed the issue was going to be skin cancer from sun exposure, not breast cancer.

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#222

Post by bsder »

noitpmeder wrote: post #221
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, it’s very bad, hereabouts. Long Island is known as a breast cancer hotspot (especially Nassau County), but I have seen many different types. I moved here, when I was 28. Before coming here, I had never met anyone that had cancer. Since moving here, I have known at least one person, every year, that has been battling cancer. This year, it has been 3 fairly close acquaintances. They keep a lid on it, but it’s bad e…

Any guesses as to what's so special about Long Island? I assumed the issue was going to be skin cancer from sun exposure, not breast cancer.

Military base areas have significantly higher cancer rates.

Long Island has historically had quite terrible air quality, as well, no?

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#223

Post by noitpmeder »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #131
guraf wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ridiculing people who are worried about long term effects of something that has been in use for only a few years is such an HN thing. There's countless precedent for things once touted as being safe to turn out incredibly damaging. We just don't know the long term effect yet. Please spare me with the "but there's no mechanism for it to do harm!!!!!" the same was said for all the other drugs that ended up causing canc…

The vaccines that people are getting ridiculed about have been administered to more than 5 billion people. If there were any such extremely damaging long term effects, we would have seen some already.

I think many people would disagree with your idea of what "long term" means...

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#224

Post by junofan »

lukeck wrote: post #33
neverrroot wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> the ones for the CV vaccine were listed on many pages of tiny text (both from Pfizer and from Moderna) The size of the pages side effects were written on says absolutely nothing about what the side effects are or their severity. > Then there are the long term consequences, many studies keep coming out with surprises (recent buzzword “Ribosomal frameshift” Ribosomal frameshift is in itself not a “long term consequen…

I think the methylated pseudouridine is actually a tRNA component. Could be wrong. I’m not sure what the 3D structure of the vaccine mRNA is, but it could depart quite a bit from the high-school-biology linear strand portrayal of mRNA.

> other proteins present in a cell can regulate which proteins can be produced - again an essential part of how our cells function

I thought manipulating this was a design goal.

Regardless, I somewhat doubt the simple story presented to the public is 100% accurate.

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#225

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

noitpmeder wrote: post #221
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, it’s very bad, hereabouts. Long Island is known as a breast cancer hotspot (especially Nassau County), but I have seen many different types. I moved here, when I was 28. Before coming here, I had never met anyone that had cancer. Since moving here, I have known at least one person, every year, that has been battling cancer. This year, it has been 3 fairly close acquaintances. They keep a lid on it, but it’s bad e…

Any guesses as to what's so special about Long Island? I assumed the issue was going to be skin cancer from sun exposure, not breast cancer.

Aquifers. Also, it's probably Superfund Central.

A few times a month, I pass a fancy adult condo development, built upon the land that was formerly Deutsch Relays[0]; an old superfund site.

[0] https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/CurSites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0...

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#226

Post by anticensor »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #197
bawolff wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine an individually customized vaccine would still be expensive even if produced at-cost. Things get cheap when they can be mass produced.

From what they said it doesn't actually need to be individually produced. Rather, there are 34 possible targets, which ones are actually used depends on the patient's cancer. You aim at the targets which the tumor expresses, the others would simply cause side effects for no gain. Thus, instead of custom manufacture your distribution system is 34 separate compounds, the patient receives whatever combination would be b…

Many dedicated pharmacies (not pharmacy sections in stores) have the necessary equipment for compound medication production.

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#227

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

bsder wrote: post #222
noitpmeder wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any guesses as to what's so special about Long Island? I assumed the issue was going to be skin cancer from sun exposure, not breast cancer.

Military base areas have significantly higher cancer rates. Long Island has historically had quite terrible air quality, as well, no?

Not the best, but the City has worse.

What Long Island is, is the site of some of the oldest heavy industry, built for the world wars.

Many those planes and tanks you see in the documentaries, were often built right here.

And they set it up quickly, with very little regulation. People have been straight-up dumping toxic sludge for decades. Since Long Island gets almost all its water from local aquifers, there you have it.

Traditionally, this kind of thing happens to disadvantaged communities, without much clout, but Long Island has a lot of billionaires (old-money billionaires). They get cancer, as well.

But they are also absolutely aghast at the prospect of government intervention, and hate regulations. Add a bit of mob spice, and you have a situation, where no one wants to raise a stink.

We do have some damn good cancer hospitals, though. Very few of the people I have seen fight cancer have actually died.

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#228

Post by LorenPechtel »

base698 wrote: post #169
maxerickson wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you wanna call a thing that stimulates an immune response to an antigen a gene therapy? It's using the same mechanism as vaccines (exposure to the proteins in question), it's utterly bizarre to conflate it with gene therapy. It's probably reasonable to call it a vaccine based immunotherapy.

Because it transcribes something from a gene?

But it doesn't. There's no transcribing going on. mRNA is the *result* of transcribing from DNA. The genes aren't touched.

In normal operation the genes are the master blueprints from which work orders (in the form of mRNA) are generated. The cells use that mRNA to build the requested proteins. The mRNA vaccines are bogus work orders slipped into the production queue and they go nowhere near the DNA.

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#229

Post by LorenPechtel »

oldgradstudent wrote: post #203
LorenPechtel wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No vaccine in existence actually prevents infection. Rather, it primes the immune system so the battle is typically a total rout, the invader losing very quickly and the patient never noticing. That's what they got against Covid/Wuhan and the world actually did achieve herd immunity--against Covid/Wuhan. (The Wuhan strain has been extinct for some time.) Unfortunately, it turned out to mutate quite rapidly (like the…

> the invader losing very quickly and the patient never noticing. That's called preventing Covid. Covid is the disease, not simply an infection. The problem is that the vast majority of people who got the vaccine did in fact notice very well they've had Covid. > That's what they got against Covid/Wuhan and the world actually did achieve herd immunity--against Covid/Wuhan. (The Wuhan strain has been extinct for some t…

We knew it would eventually mutate and reduce the effectiveness of the vaccine. The vaccine remained effective in the time it was developed and for a while afterwards.

And, yes, nobody has tested the severity reduction in a proper trial. It would be expensive, difficult and serve little purpose. What we can observe is that given matched populations the unvaccinated die at a considerably higher rate than the vaccinated. Beware of some bogus "studies" to the opposite--which didn't use matched populations. Those at higher risk are more likely to be vaccinated and a vaccinated high risk individual can easily still be more likely to die than an unvaccinated low risk individual.

Re: Moderna's mRNA cancer vaccine works better than thought

#230

Post by LorenPechtel »

anticensor wrote: post #226
LorenPechtel wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what they said it doesn't actually need to be individually produced. Rather, there are 34 possible targets, which ones are actually used depends on the patient's cancer. You aim at the targets which the tumor expresses, the others would simply cause side effects for no gain. Thus, instead of custom manufacture your distribution system is 34 separate compounds, the patient receives whatever combination would be b…

Many dedicated pharmacies (not pharmacy sections in stores) have the necessary equipment for compound medication production.

aka compounding pharmacies.
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