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Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

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Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#11
post #5
post #4

There's a false dichotomy in a lot of these discussions. There isn't a contradiction between helping society and making money. Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society. The money you make comes from somewhere- generally customers who are parting with it. Why are they parting with it? Because they prefer what you're buying to the alternative. People spend, in the aggregate, because it makes their…

>Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society. HFT and Domain squatting are legal.

HFT: provides liquidity and increases market efficiency (suppresses pricing inconsistencies) Domain squatting: allows market to set the value of a domain.

Not sure what's wrong with either of these, or why they are any worse than any other business that seeks to take advantage of market inefficiencies or speculate on asset prices (after all, most businesses are some combination of the two)

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#12
post #5
post #4

There's a false dichotomy in a lot of these discussions. There isn't a contradiction between helping society and making money. Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society. The money you make comes from somewhere- generally customers who are parting with it. Why are they parting with it? Because they prefer what you're buying to the alternative. People spend, in the aggregate, because it makes their…

>Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society. HFT and Domain squatting are legal.

This is why I said "Virtually". Seriously, think about what you've just said. Do you realize that you didn't even make a claim, you simply imply that these are somehow not beneficial to society as if it were a fact? Don't you realize that you should have made an argument here, if you're going to make that claim? Making a counter argument is simple: HFT adds liquidity giving better prices to traders, and domain squatting effectively provides a set of links to relevant sites when someone goes to a non-existent site. Shouldn't you have made an argument for your position, if it was worth making a comment?

Are you really trying to derail the discussion into a debate about HFT and domain squatting?

Do we really need to think of all the possible legal ways to make money that don't help society?

How about recognizing that the point of my comment is correct, even if you manage to find some legal way to make money that "doesn't benefit society"?

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#13
post #6
post #4

There's a false dichotomy in a lot of these discussions. There isn't a contradiction between helping society and making money. Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society. The money you make comes from somewhere- generally customers who are parting with it. Why are they parting with it? Because they prefer what you're buying to the alternative. People spend, in the aggregate, because it makes their…

Academia, Teaching, Charities & Not for profit organisations all improve society and you wouldn't do any of those if you wanted to be rich.

People have gotten rich doing all of those. For instance, the head of the Red Cross makes a lot of money. So do the leaders at United Way.

Further, many of these organizations arguably don't improve society. For instance, the Red Cross monopoly on blood supply significantly drives up health care costs, primarily to the personal profit of the Red Cross bureaucracy.

But this is all sidestepping my point.

The idea that making money is to the detriment of society is the claim I wish to dispel.

My point is not that you can't help society without getting rich-- its easy to prove you can.

My point is, most ways of getting rich do significantly benefit society.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#14
post #6
post #4

There's a false dichotomy in a lot of these discussions. There isn't a contradiction between helping society and making money. Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society. The money you make comes from somewhere- generally customers who are parting with it. Why are they parting with it? Because they prefer what you're buying to the alternative. People spend, in the aggregate, because it makes their…

Academia, Teaching, Charities & Not for profit organisations all improve society and you wouldn't do any of those if you wanted to be rich.

Coming from academia myself, I'd have to say you've been deceived on both counts, there. At an institutional level academic research is all about the money, and the prestige used to bring in more grant money and student-loan money. For instance, I know a professor at a top-tier US university who received an award last year purely for being in the select group who had made the school $1M by bringing in large government research grants. And the people who do this do very well financially.

There are many individual academics for whom it's not about the money, but this institutional culture corrodes altruistic motives, and selects against them.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#15
Money making is fine, but wanting billions is kind of weird imho. The goal of 'being the biggest search engine' is great, being a search engine and having the goal to make 10 billion $/month is not. Again, in my opinion.

He mentions 'feed the family'; no matter what your 'family' is here, with honest hard work you can do that without having too much money focus in your company. But yes, the bottom line needs to be solid and you are insane if you don't watch that like a hawk.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#16
post #2

A better question is: Should you live your life through the morality of others? If the answer is yes, then simply read what someone else says about making money and do that. If the answer is no, then you're free and can do what you want.

Exactly. OK by who?

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#17
post #4

There's a false dichotomy in a lot of these discussions. There isn't a contradiction between helping society and making money. Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society. The money you make comes from somewhere- generally customers who are parting with it. Why are they parting with it? Because they prefer what you're buying to the alternative. People spend, in the aggregate, because it makes their…

> $7 for a movie? Worth more than $7 in entertainment to the person buying it... or they wouldn't buy it.

What if the movie sucked but the person didn't know it beforehand?

> You don't get to be a millionaire by making people miserable.

Why not? I can think of several ways. You could make them miserable first by advertising, them sell your product as a remedy. Or sell a positional good and let your customers have bidding wars, even though the total sum of misery remains unchanged. Or sell a good with large negative externalities.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#18
Alternative questions: Is it OK to want to make money at zero sum games where your windfall causes other people's losses? For example roulette, poker, and trading cards?

Is it OK to want to make money at win-win games? For example restoring a vehicle, Writing a book or solving a new problem?

The problem here is that very powerful organizations in this country are daily trying to brainwash people into thinking that somehow the green slip contracts in our pockets are evil. Having money, or wanting money is morally suspect. These powerful organizations control media narratives, political talking points, church services, and pretty much every company in America who is interested in turning a profit from the masses.

Is it OK to get an education for yourself and your children? Yes. Is it OK to go to the hospital when you are sick? Yes. Is it OK to want to make money? No. Your money is morally suspect, take some out, and give it to me, there will be a net gain in righteousness in the universe when the money flows from your pocket to mine.

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#19
My dad has a great poster on his wall in his home office.

It says: SUCCESS - I've managed to eat and not be eaten and find a place to sleep every night.

Success is a personal measure, we often externalize it and try to measure it against other's perceptions. If you choose to measure yourself against people who think "Money is Evil" or "Greed is Good" then that is just a choice. No different then choosing to put sugar in your coffee or not drinking coffee at all.

I've always considered myself a passionate pragmatist. I've started many companies, sold some, bought some, crashed some and put some in mothballs. I love the creation process. It's my hook. At the same time I try and estimate the financial impact of those decisions and balance my passion with a pragmatic review of the risks. Sometimes I make boat loads of money and other times I am lucky to get out with my life. But always it's a balance of rewards and money can be one of those rewards. The reality is that the most rewarding parts are the people I meet along the way, the things I've learned and the passion I felt for those projects as I executed on them. If you look at money as just a game token like many other tokens in life then you might be ok if you don't obsess about it. I personally think often about how many people would be willing to take time out of of their busy lives to visit me when I die. It sounds morbid but it's also another interesting measure of your impact on the world. Don't focus on the money, focus on the tools you need and goals you have for yourself in your life. But know that money is just another tool that might help you meet your overall goals. That said you can become a monk and let go of all possessions and I know some people who have done that and they say it's the most rewarding thing they've ever done. But clearly its not compatible with the goals I currently hold in my life. Maybe when I get a bit older I'll change my mind. Because again, the power to change your mind is still yours!

I have managed for 30 years to follow my passion and the whole time I've managed to eat and not be eaten and find a place to sleep each night. I've done amazing things, met amazing people and learned more then I could have ever imagined was available to me. What more can you ask for in life?

Re: Is it OK to Want to Make Money?

#20
post #4

There's a false dichotomy in a lot of these discussions. There isn't a contradiction between helping society and making money. Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society. The money you make comes from somewhere- generally customers who are parting with it. Why are they parting with it? Because they prefer what you're buying to the alternative. People spend, in the aggregate, because it makes their…

>Virtually every legal way I know of making money helps society

I respectfully disagree. Here are a few examples why:

- In my country 1 in 4 people are employed by the government. Their income does not come from 'customers', it comes from tax payers. Many large gov. contracts are won through corruption.

- The weapons industry makes money. It benefits from war.

- Paper/oil/meat/mining industries are huge, they're largely fed by non renewable and increasingly precious resources.

- The food industry is making money while systematically destroying peoples health and negatively shaping societies relationship with food.

- etc etc.

>"You don't get to be a millionaire by making people miserable."

How quickly we forget. The housing market crash was created by a whole swathe of people getting rich while making people miserable. Financiers rarely consider the consequences of their decisions, they think about the bottom line.

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