Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 220 posts

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#151

Post by fullspectrumdev »

fifafu wrote: post #26
fullspectrumdev wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A proper extractor fan mitigates the problem entirely. For a lot of cooking, gas is simply superior in almost every way to induction or electric. Induction has a few advantages in certain situations, but not many - gas is more flexible. Now there is something to be said about people using insufficient extraction or not maintaining their ventilation/extraction systems for sure, or grossly underspeccing them so that th…

do you have an example where induction is less flexible? (of course assuming you have the proper cookware)

Roasting/charring peppers is one I find much easier to do with a gas stove. A lot of the food I like to cook involves this step - fire roast some peppers, let them steam, remove the charred skin, and so on. Adds a real depth of flavour.

I could break out a blowtorch, or kinda badly do it in an oven (the taste is not the same/as deep as with fire), but the ability to just pop it on the flame for a minute is the best.

I’ve also found that I have much easier time controlling temperature with flame than even the really nice induction stoves, even with a LOT of practice.

Where induction is amazing IMO is delivering a lot of heat fast, so boiling water or getting a pan up to a high temp for searing.

Honestly, my preferred setup if I was building a kitchen would be a hybrid setup - one side gas, the other side induction.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#152

Post by Mountain_Skies »

perihelions wrote: post #127

- "Environmental epidemiologist Josiah Kephart studies pollution from cooking. In this 2021 photo he measured nitrogen dioxide levels from cooking in his kitchen. At right: A nitrogen dioxide air monitor shows 0.159 parts per million, or 159 parts per billion. That's above the World Health Organization hourly guideline of 106 ppb. Kephart has since replaced the gas stove with an electric one." That's *barely* above t…

I've used a consumer grade air quality meter and never found use of my natural gas stove to be an issue, even if doing a lot of cooking, but my oven does impact air quality quite a bit after a couple of hours. No idea if running the hood fan would impact the emissions from the oven. Since it's a rental, I haven't gone searching for a cause. In general, the only time I need the oven for an extended period of time is when cooking a turkey. For most other things, the oven is inferior to various countertop devices.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#153

Post by prepend »

bdw5204 wrote: post #58
kccqzy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we need a carbon tax. Your gas bill needs to be much higher.

The idea that energy bills need to be higher is sure to be a political winner. I encourage any politician who believes in that idea to openly run for office on it rather than trying to hide it and do it once they're already in office.

Certainly the poor will appreciate their sacrifice for the good of helping climate change.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#154

Post by nulbyte »

nemo44x wrote: post #133
TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the main function of any stove is to heat things up. Induction can simply do that faster. Boiling water is just an easy way to measure it

I guess you don’t cook? The main function of a stove is to work with your pans/etc to create the heat you desire. Different applications have different requirements. I may use a cast iron pan to store a lot of heat and release it over some time. I may have another where I want to change temperatures in the pan quickly, which is far more common for me. For example I may use high heat to sear meat and then drop the hea…

To me, this sounds like an argument largely built around the idea that you don't want to learn how to use a new product. Many people have convinced themselves they can't adapt, and I think this follows from the marketing ploys described in the article.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#155

Post by thelastgallon »

hutzlibu wrote: post #93
throwaway473825 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good start would be to have the same tax on electricity and gas. It's absurd that gas is heavily subsidized in most of Europe: https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/eus-energy-taxa... Fortunately, I live in one of the few countries which don't subsidize gas (Sweden). When I visit the continent and see a gas stove, it feels like going to a museum. Induction stoves are so much better.

"Induction stoves are so much better." Depends. When the electricity comes from a gas power plant, it is way more efficient, to use the heat of the gas directly, instead of heating water and steam, running through a turbine, transmit lossy overland, convert to household power -> turn the electricity into heat again. But when you have renewable sources, it is a different story. I believe you have mostly nuclear power…

You are ignoring the cost of laying millions of miles of natural gas pipes to each and every home. And the leaks through all these pipes, which is 9%.

Electricity is the first utility and all homes have it. Of course, you can be off grid and have no utilities, just have solar+batteries, electrification works perfectly in that scenario.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#156

Post by revscat »

swayvil wrote: post #132
rolobio wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had my glass stove top shatter. Turns out that is the only thing they don’t warranty. I did not opt for the extended warranty on the next stove…

Also, apparently induction stoves require special cookware So you just throw out all your pots?

No? Where did you get such a ridiculous idea?

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#157

Post by prepend »

rdl wrote: post #146
nemo44x wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heating up water quickly is almost never a use case. It is not on the critical path for optimizations either. Unless you subsist on boiling noodles when you’re late for a meeting.

Main thing induction seems actually worse for is being able to lift the pan above cooking surface and differentially heat different parts of the pan, particularly useful for Chinese/wok cooking.

I like this for making eggs too. And lots of things.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#158

Post by fulafel »

hutzlibu wrote: post #93
throwaway473825 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good start would be to have the same tax on electricity and gas. It's absurd that gas is heavily subsidized in most of Europe: https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/eus-energy-taxa... Fortunately, I live in one of the few countries which don't subsidize gas (Sweden). When I visit the continent and see a gas stove, it feels like going to a museum. Induction stoves are so much better.

"Induction stoves are so much better." Depends. When the electricity comes from a gas power plant, it is way more efficient, to use the heat of the gas directly, instead of heating water and steam, running through a turbine, transmit lossy overland, convert to household power -> turn the electricity into heat again. But when you have renewable sources, it is a different story. I believe you have mostly nuclear power…

Even if your electricity is generated from gas, induction is more efficient: https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooki...

(And the above even generously assumes the generation is not CHP which would make induction look better still, and ignores the extra energy needed for chilling your house)

The low efficiency of transferring heat from gas to the cooking vessel kills the odds for the gas range in the competition, most of energy goes to heating air instead of the kettle.

(But we shouldn't generate electricity from gas of course, fossils need to be left in the ground to avert worst of the climate disaster)

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#159

Post by boppo1 »

nemo44x wrote: post #133
TheSoftwareGuy wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the main function of any stove is to heat things up. Induction can simply do that faster. Boiling water is just an easy way to measure it

I guess you don’t cook? The main function of a stove is to work with your pans/etc to create the heat you desire. Different applications have different requirements. I may use a cast iron pan to store a lot of heat and release it over some time. I may have another where I want to change temperatures in the pan quickly, which is far more common for me. For example I may use high heat to sear meat and then drop the hea…

You're downvoted because people who aren't enthusiasts just don't have the experience to understand.

It's like the EU ban[0] on lead paint. Fine artists said "wait but what about Flake white? It's a critical paint! Nothing else compares! We know how to use it safely!" And the response was "Just substitute Titanium white. It's brighter anyway!" But Ti is absolutely not a substitute. It's like telling sculptors to substitute plaster for marble.

[0]I can't recall if the ban was lifted. I live in the US.

EDIT: Don't take my word for it. Here's Michael Harding on the subject, he makes paints that are among the very very best available:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G1pXT06HXX0

https://www.lucillesmithson.com/single-post/2016/05/06/in-co...

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#160

Post by revscat »

matwood wrote: post #85
nemo44x wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heating up water quickly is almost never a use case. It is not on the critical path for optimizations either. Unless you subsist on boiling noodles when you’re late for a meeting.

Exactly. Talking how fast to boil water is pretty much useless. Tell me how to actually cook on induction like I do with gas.

The same, only without giving money to Russia.
Post reply on HN