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Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

npr.org

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Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#101

Post by nephy »

pinkmuffinere wrote: post #96
nephy wrote: post #35

I have a gas range, gas water heater, gas logs, and gas backup heat. My gas bill is around $15 a month. My home has proper ventilation to the outside and I have no intention of converting a cheap gas bill into a high electric bill.

A big point of the article seems to be that standard ventilation does not/did not adequately get rid of the nitrogen dioxide generated from a gas stove. Is your ventilation just really good, or is this not a concern for you?

I have a fan with 5 speeds that sucks a lot of air. The stove is on an exterior wall and vents directly to the side of my house. I’m not really concerned about it.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#102

Post by sneeze-slayer »

hutzlibu wrote: post #93
throwaway473825 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good start would be to have the same tax on electricity and gas. It's absurd that gas is heavily subsidized in most of Europe: https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/eus-energy-taxa... Fortunately, I live in one of the few countries which don't subsidize gas (Sweden). When I visit the continent and see a gas stove, it feels like going to a museum. Induction stoves are so much better.

"Induction stoves are so much better." Depends. When the electricity comes from a gas power plant, it is way more efficient, to use the heat of the gas directly, instead of heating water and steam, running through a turbine, transmit lossy overland, convert to household power -> turn the electricity into heat again. But when you have renewable sources, it is a different story. I believe you have mostly nuclear power…

They are just nicer to cook on. They get hotter far quicker and can be more easily controlled.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#104

Post by CaptWillard »

vasco wrote: post #80
CaptWillard wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm saying the anti-gas, electric cheerleaders seem ... inorganic.

I guess the internet might be a more interesting place if everything you read goes through the lens of a conspiracy theory, so who am I to tell you that these are likely just people with different opinions to you. I don't know either obviously, but I choose to live life using a different lens than that. Maybe I'm wrong and naive but feels more relaxed!

I'm sure it is more relaxed. I remember when conspiracy theories were kinda fun but mostly harmless BS.

That was before the last 7-10 years, where government and media played whack-a-mole with emerging information, dismissing everything as conspiracy theory or misinformation.

And it worked ... for a while.

Problem is, now there's a record, a significant recent history of these things that were described as such for months and years until it was no longer tenable to deny and deflect.

Meanwhile, we've seen exactly how organized and cynical the "misinformation" campaigns run by NGOs and other stakeholder groups can be.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#105

Post by the_third_wave »

nemo44x wrote: post #51
dangus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Induction ranges heat up water faster and use less energy than gas ranges: https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooki... Since you mentioned that you have backup heating, I assume you don’t live in a very cold climate, in which case a heat pump for your backup heat and water heater is your most efficient lowest cost option, not a gas system. Part of your gas bill is just paying the gas company for a…

Heating up water quickly is almost never a use case. It is not on the critical path for optimizations either. Unless you subsist on boiling noodles when you’re late for a meeting.

Electric kettles are even quicker at heating up water and use less power to do so. They are also cheap and can last for decades if taken care of reasonably well.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#106

Post by RandomLensman »

cinntaile wrote: post #81
koheripbal wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...lots of things SHOULD be true, but are not in practice.

Emission reductions and or efficiency improvements are also possible outcomes if the tax is higher than the cost of these changes.

Only if you can finance/afford it. If not, it could even delay change as it reduces available funds.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#107

Post by sasmithjr »

nemo44x wrote: post #51
dangus wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Induction ranges heat up water faster and use less energy than gas ranges: https://www.treehugger.com/which-more-energy-efficient-cooki... Since you mentioned that you have backup heating, I assume you don’t live in a very cold climate, in which case a heat pump for your backup heat and water heater is your most efficient lowest cost option, not a gas system. Part of your gas bill is just paying the gas company for a…

Heating up water quickly is almost never a use case. It is not on the critical path for optimizations either. Unless you subsist on boiling noodles when you’re late for a meeting.

> Heating up water quickly is almost never a use case.

It'd be helpful for my household for hot water for coffee and tea, and it'd also help us for heating up some extra water for grits or risotto when they need more.

Also, isn't boiling water just the measurable outcome of the test but what matters is that the pot is coming to temp sooner? Pots and pans heating up more quickly is helpful all the time.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#108

Post by melling »

asystole wrote: post #83
lucidguppy wrote: post #27

I switched to electric radiant. I miss being able to manipulate the pan yes. I like that it's more efficient. Gas kicked a LOT of heat into the kitchen. I like that it didn't scorch the side of the saucepans. Ultimately I switched to avoid burning fossil fuels. Every bit counts.

How is your local electricity generated?

That’s what people say about EVs. The short answer is that it doesn’t matter.

Switching out billions of stoves, cars … to electric counterparts is going to take a long time. The thousands of power plants are much easier to convert.

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#109

Post by [deleted] »

lucidguppy wrote: post #27

I switched to electric radiant. I miss being able to manipulate the pan yes. I like that it's more efficient. Gas kicked a LOT of heat into the kitchen. I like that it didn't scorch the side of the saucepans. Ultimately I switched to avoid burning fossil fuels. Every bit counts.

[deleted]

Re: Gas utilities used tobacco tactics to avoid gas stove regulations

#110

Post by vasco »

CaptWillard wrote: post #104
vasco wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the internet might be a more interesting place if everything you read goes through the lens of a conspiracy theory, so who am I to tell you that these are likely just people with different opinions to you. I don't know either obviously, but I choose to live life using a different lens than that. Maybe I'm wrong and naive but feels more relaxed!

I'm sure it is more relaxed. I remember when conspiracy theories were kinda fun but mostly harmless BS. That was before the last 7-10 years, where government and media played whack-a-mole with emerging information, dismissing everything as conspiracy theory or misinformation. And it worked ... for a while. Problem is, now there's a record, a significant recent history of these things that were described as such for m…

Yeah I get it, I just decided to care little about what I read online and give it as much credence as if I overhear a random conversation in a café. Even if they're doing some psyop its not like I'd change my life based on random hearsay. Thanks for the replies, it was easy to be defensive and I was really curious. Have a great holiday season!
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