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Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

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Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#101

Post by mikepurvis »

saghm wrote: post #89
daydream wrote: post #37

I wonder long will the backend infra supporting the Switch will last. Especially now that they’re selling download-only versions of the games. Online services for earlier consoles like the Wii were more basic, and IIRC in some cases were developed and maintained by third parties, not Nintendo themselves? I understand wanting to get rid of that overhead especially if it wasn’t driving incremental revenue. But now the…

It's kind of crazy how Nintendo has basically thrown out their entire service for consoles multiple times and started from scratch now. Can you imagine if Xbox Live or the PSN were thrown out and replaced with an incompatible new service after a single generation of use, let alone multiple times? Even ignoring the user experience, it feels like a massive waste of engineering work, with the benefit being...not having…

The Wii was a bit of a special case for how incredibly janky it was to be trying to present a system shell without it being actually backed by a proper OS/hypervisor arrangement like the other platforms of its generation. That it was able to do paid digital games at all is kind of miraculous.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#102

Post by slowhadoken »

Dalewyn wrote: post #95
spookie wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a Valve problem, or a Microsoft one at that point? Nevertheless, you could still download your game and remove the thin DRM layer (tools available to do so), and then play them on your Windows<10 machines.

Valve problem. Selling merchandise you know/stated the customer can't use is negligent at best, malicious at worst. Obligatory IANAL.

Seems like the obligation falls on developers and studios. It’s Capcom’s responsibility to keep Street Fighter X Tekken working because Capcom is the seller. Fortunately the community usually warns buyers about abandonware and you can always get a refund.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#103

Post by mikepurvis »

hadlock wrote: post #99
saghm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's kind of crazy how Nintendo has basically thrown out their entire service for consoles multiple times and started from scratch now. Can you imagine if Xbox Live or the PSN were thrown out and replaced with an incompatible new service after a single generation of use, let alone multiple times? Even ignoring the user experience, it feels like a massive waste of engineering work, with the benefit being...not having…

Lack of support for 3DS and (probably) switch means I am moving over to the Steam Deck for my next console, probably early next year. Losing my entire switch library, basically forever, when the Switch 2 (or whatever they call it) is released seems like throwing good money after bad.

Nintendo has been getting greedy in recent years with the paid rereleases and HD ports.

However they had a terrific track record on backcompat for years in the handheld space. GB -> GBC -> GBA -> DS -> 3DS, every one supporting at least one generation back's physical media. Nintendo understands the value of the Switch library and I think would be very cautious to release successor hardware that didn't play the existing titles.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#104

Post by song »

makeitdouble wrote: post #90
danparsonson wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that we should think about whether or not it's better to let the past go and just enjoy experiences during their time rather than expecting them to be around forever, but I think your tiramisu example actually makes the opposite point - recipes like that are in the public domain and there will always be kitchens if you want to make one, whereas an online game server is a closed system that disappears if it's…

This is a valid point, and I agree company data should be forced to become public under specific conditions. Now to get back to the tiramisu part, I think what makes it delicious in some restaurant is either obfuscated (e.g. the chef has a specific way to process some of the steps, or use some benign undisclosed ingredient). Or it's based on a specific ingredient that won't be available to anyone seeking it. For inst…

I disagree with you about restaurants, there aren’t really any secret ingredients etc… The main difference is skill, not many people have the skills to actually replicate a tiramisu as good as that specific famous shop. But someone who is really skilled absolutely can

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#105

Post by chii »

hellotheretoday wrote: post #91
daydream wrote: post #37

I wonder long will the backend infra supporting the Switch will last. Especially now that they’re selling download-only versions of the games. Online services for earlier consoles like the Wii were more basic, and IIRC in some cases were developed and maintained by third parties, not Nintendo themselves? I understand wanting to get rid of that overhead especially if it wasn’t driving incremental revenue. But now the…

I can sort of understand ending life for allowing purchasing on the platform but why would you not create servers for the new consoles in a way that allows you to continue to serve downloads or at the very least whatever licensing necessary to launch the software to old hardware? If I buy a game I should be able to launch it and redownload it. If the above is not feasible then strip the drm at the consoles end of lif…

> If I buy a game I should be able to launch it and redownload it.

unfortunately, this is not the right for which you paid, despite the fact that it is what people believe when they click purchase.

That's why i condone piracy. It enables preservation, regardless of the choice of the copyright owner.

That's why i would always want to make an offline backup of whatever i buy. It's hard to do sometimes, and the onus being on me to do it is a failing of the consumer protection laws that did not evolve with digital purchases.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#106

Post by RockRobotRock »

Andrex wrote: post #98
kmeisthax wrote: post #82

So... Nintendo made the same mistake twice? For context, the Wii used GameSpy under-the-hood. You weren't necessarily required to use it (as evidenced by EA shipping their own system) but most developers did. The reason why Wii online was shut down was specifically because GameSpy got bought out and started massively increasing their server hosting costs. Of course, that's a little different from the Rendez-Vous situ…

Maybe NIH syndrome has its uses. I don't blame Nintendo for using outside companies to handle online, it's never been their core competency. They're an entertainment company, not a tech company.

Their user hostility is a little ridiculous, though. I think Japan's galapagos syndrome comes into play a bit.

Transferring your ACNH save was a nightmare before their cloud service came out, if I remember.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#107

Post by HideousKojima »

slowhadoken wrote: post #102
Dalewyn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve problem. Selling merchandise you know/stated the customer can't use is negligent at best, malicious at worst. Obligatory IANAL.

Seems like the obligation falls on developers and studios. It’s Capcom’s responsibility to keep Street Fighter X Tekken working because Capcom is the seller. Fortunately the community usually warns buyers about abandonware and you can always get a refund.

Also if you're playing on Linux a lot of those older games run perfectly through WINE, better than they run on modern Windows.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#108

Post by al_borland »

robinson7d wrote: post #100
tredre3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And optical drives can store that comfortably. There is no reason the entire game couldn't be on the disk and working as intended. The reason there is such a large day one update is simply that games are released unfinished and/or untested. This isn't the fault of the medium. This is a systemic video game industry problem.

(The following comment agrees with you, it is not intended as an argument against what you’re saying): Technically being able to contain the content and actually being able to boot the game from the disc (after transferring to the console hard drive) are two separate things. Even without counting Day 1/Day 0 patches. Some games refuse to run without downloading additional content that isn’t on the disc, others requir…

These are also systemic issues in the industry. Every game should be able to run with the physical media without any connection to the internet.

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#109

Post by [deleted] »

slowhadoken wrote: post #102
Dalewyn wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Valve problem. Selling merchandise you know/stated the customer can't use is negligent at best, malicious at worst. Obligatory IANAL.

Seems like the obligation falls on developers and studios. It’s Capcom’s responsibility to keep Street Fighter X Tekken working because Capcom is the seller. Fortunately the community usually warns buyers about abandonware and you can always get a refund.

[deleted]

Re: Nintendo Network shutdown – The beginning of the end

#110

Post by HideousKojima »

Libcat99 wrote: post #35
LightHugger wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lots of steam games have no drm

They require steam to be running, don't they? What happens if steam goes away?

Several run completely fine without Steam running (or even installed)
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