Live data from Hacker News

A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

twitter.com

141–150 of 189 posts

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#141
post #71
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the market has spoken. In the sense that a market is made up of buyers and sellers, and the sellers have decided to offer no other option yes. I think the issue is more of the design and ownership of these things. No one wants an update bricking their car. I doubt a lot of people here would object to a discrete subsystem where you could poll charge status, turn on heating etc.

You can buy many vehicles today dating all the way back to the turn of the last century. Here's some listings for steam cars if you insist on no electronics whatsoever https://www.steamcarnetwork.com/for-sale Whatever your line is in the sand for tech integration, you have many great options from before that point.

This answer is like Microsoft saying the 1990s that "abacus exist, so we're not really a monopoly".

People want modern cars, modern TVs and modern computers. They don't want a steam engine. But modern doesn't mean "crap that the manufacturer can brick remotely".

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#142
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. I rented a Ford Explorer recently, and somehow they managed to screw up Applr Carplay. I'm in a place I don't know very well, navigating using Apple Maps via Carplay, and my GPS location goes for a wander. Just wanders off so that the navigation gets way confused trying to route me to my designation, because the current location is miles and miles off from where we are. So I unplug my phone and suddenly my GPS l…

carplay just seems like crap on all cars I've used (including the new subaru I own) I don't even try it anymore and just bring a vanilla charger and pipe audio to the car via bluetooth (which generally works without issue on every car I've tried) and the phone for actual navigation

lol even that was broken on the rental Ford Explorer - audio from Siri and music worked, so I know the Bluetooth connection was fine, but the GPS navigation audio didn't speak.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#143
post #12

I wish someone would make a truly dumb car. Sure you can have microcontrollers for emissions, safety, etc but beyond that give me a 1970s user interface and make the car as independent of technology as possible.

My 2012 Dacia Sandero is as dumb as you can be nowadays I think.

Great news! [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7-7Ps8EWnk

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#144

Some 20 years ago I was asked to prepare OS distribution with OTA upgrade capability for some PoS system. I think I prepared two system partitions and a custom MBR which would alternate the system partition on every start (uses one bit of non-volatile memory to alternate selection of partitions on each boot). When the system starts, it does self-test. If it fails the self-test it just restarts. If it succeeds -- it w…

A/B boot is old, good, and proven, but what do you do when you have dozens of separate microcontrollers, each governing a semi-independent subsystem, all running their own software that needs its own updates? It would make sense from safety/reliability PoV when a crash/bug in a slightly less critical system (like adjusting mirrors) does not affect a slightly more critical system (like indicators). What do you do when…

Regarding M1 Macs: Apple bundles all the firmware with the OS and initializes every auxiliary core by uploading the corresponding firmware into its RAM on system boot (as far as I understand it). Not sure if that's something that can be done with a car (e.g. what if a controller loses power physically and reboots from a clean slate?), but that's one way of keeping firmware in sync with the OS release.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#145

Back in the 1980s I was in the room with a customer who I had written an inspection system for, using a hand-held computer. After downloading the data from the handheld, it would upload a new inspection route. While demoing the transfer, He asked "What happens if I disconnect this right now?".... I didn't know, and said so. I week later it was bulletproof... you could unplug it any time you wanted, and never lose dat…

As someone who has been considering an EV, I'm noping out pretty hard right now and thinking about buying an old and reliable Honda Accord. A few more of these posts and I'll be driving a Volkswagen bug with a garage full of spare parts ;)

There are EVs without this problem.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You simply do not understand the point of extracting "basic car" from "smart car". The point isn't that the software will have no bugs. The point is that the basic car will have much less software and much more basic software and that it is much easier to test and ensure this software is in working condition. Also, it is absolutely not true that the basic software has to be updateable. With care, basic functionality…

I have a very deep appreciation for simpler automotive components. Please don't take anything I'm saying as discounting those very real benefits. What I'm saying is that no practical amount of testing and verification can eliminate the need for updates. Let me give some practical examples I've seen: a bug in the silicon vendor BSP that prevented programs from accessing half of the physical memory. In another case the…

Cars have been built for decades without needing any updates at all. Microcontrollers were first put in cars in the 1970s, for fuel injection control, and later for ABS and SRS. No one ever got a software update for their ABS controller in the 1990s. They've been happily running non-updateable code for many decades now, and all of a sudden you think it's normal to update embedded software? No, it really isn't. If there was a real problem, there was a manufacturer recall and they replaced parts.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want an agency to validate every single software updates to vehicles?

At the very least, if it touches anything that impacts the driving… maybe? It’s a 3 ton (+) machine with people paying attention less each passing day. It should be taken very seriously.

A scalable way, and which I believe is in place, is having rules and then periodic audits validates that the controls and processes provide a high degree of assurance of compliance with the rules and regulations.

This seems far better than having an agency ad hoc review every single specific software update to vehicles - would people at the agency review the code? Do they write automation? Do they do manual verification?

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a very deep appreciation for simpler automotive components. Please don't take anything I'm saying as discounting those very real benefits. What I'm saying is that no practical amount of testing and verification can eliminate the need for updates. Let me give some practical examples I've seen: a bug in the silicon vendor BSP that prevented programs from accessing half of the physical memory. In another case the…

Cars have been built for decades without needing any updates at all. Microcontrollers were first put in cars in the 1970s, for fuel injection control, and later for ABS and SRS. No one ever got a software update for their ABS controller in the 1990s. They've been happily running non-updateable code for many decades now, and all of a sudden you think it's normal to update embedded software? No, it really isn't. If the…

Yes, this fatalistic "all software inevitably has bugs" attitude is corrosive and self-reinforcing. How about we replace it with "the more complex the software, the faster it's built, the more likely it will have bugs". At least then, there's a solution. Simplify. Slow down. Test. Remove software. Don't use software when it's not required.

The current free-for-all where we must put complex software into everything is killing us.

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#149
post #62
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problems can be found just as easily with the wrong year and make of any ICE vehicle. In those vehicles, software updates are generally only done by a mechanic, sometimes loaded from a cd or DVD loaded into the car's stereo.

Except it's not going to ever leave your car inoperable...

Probably, although I don’t think I’ve ever looked nor would the media have a reason to.

EVs get attention as disruptors

Re: A recent software update was not successful. Your vehicle cannot be driven

#150

I see a lot of people asking "How could this possibly happen?" It turns out that there's a common failure mode that makes it past almost every unit test suite: a lack of disk space. Running out of disk space pops up time and again. I've often wondered why software fails so often in this situation. But it's because the basic components of the system start to break -- things like "Call with temporary file" stop working…

[deleted]
Post reply on HN